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#1
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Hi,
I have a new MTRX Studio on v5.5.0 DADman (arrived about mid-april). I'm working on a 9.2.4 setup, but having a problem with the connection matrix misbehaving. Short Problem description: Initially, I can create and remove connections from sources to the 9.2.4 output. But once I've turned on Bass Management, the connections in the connection matrix disappear. If I remove the bass management, the connections comeback, but cannot be altered and new sources added afterwards cannot be connected to these outputs. The connections whether shown or not are working. Details: What I originally tried to create was: 1- 9.1.4 source (Dante 1-14) 1 -9.1.4 source (AD 1-14) 1 -7.1 source (Dante 56-64) 1 - 9.2.4 (DA 3-17) During the 1st creation of this, I started with 'default group' formats, later changed to customer group formats (SMPTE order at least up through 7.1 channels), and later changed the order to move Lw / Rw before Ltf Rtf Ltr Rtr. The 9.1.4 final is L/R/C/LFE/Ls/Rs/Lrs/Rrs/Lw/Rw/Ltf/Rtf/Ltr/Rtr The 9.2.4 final is L/R/C/Sub1/Ls/Rs/Lrs/Rrs/Lw/Rw/Ltf/Rtf/Ltr/Rtr/Sub2 Bass management is default with all channels sent to both subs and LFE sent +10 dB to both. I tried to recreate this monitor profile two more times . On the 2nd try I tried importing some of the info from the first profile. On the 3rd try, I created the custom groups first and then the sources and output (no importing) with same results. Seems OK until the first time I turn on bass management. The MTRX Studio is behaving correctly for the connections that were created. Bass Management is going to both SUBs correctly. I've created another monitor profile to simply and trouble shoot and its down to this: 1) One Stereo input (ADAT 1 Inputs 3/4). 2) One 2.1 output (DA Outputs 3/4/6) (L/R/Sub1 of the original 9.2.4) All OK until I turn on Bass Management and again the two connections disappear when BM on and show when off but cannot be altered. New sources added cannot be connected to this output. Bass management is working to the one sub. I created one more monitor profile where I configured two stereo sources to the one 2.1 output. Again this is working as expected, but once I turn on bass management, the connection section locks up on these outputs. I can switch between the two inputs or Sum them and that all works as expected with bass management going to the sub. Another symptom. If I close the profile, the connection section is still there and the (9.1.4, 7.1, and 9.2.4) channel labels I added in the original profile are still showing on the source side and the output side and the outputs have light blue dots on DA 5, 7, 8, and 9 (C, Ls, Rs, Lrs ,Rrs). Even through there is no monitor profile and no connections. So problem doesn't appear to be related to 2 subwoofers. Possible confused things by changing definition of customer groups when used by existing source/output? AVID problem was opened but they have not responded for the last 7 days. So I"m asking here. Anyone got some suggestions? Reset to Factory Default maybe? |
#2
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Hi ric982,
I would say that the DadMan software is quite complex and routing options can be advanced to configure Avid would need to work on profile management also signal routing for the next release. Something I would like to see is colour coding for routing connections also signal flow in and out of the DADMan software similar to the Avid Carbon Interface Gui. A easier way to save and combine DadMan profiles together if using groups with or without bass management and monitor control options for single mono channel output options would also be helpful. I think you should not need to reset a MTRX Studio to factory default if the unit is showing input and output signal via the front panel of the MTRX Studio. Just a few thoughts maybe others could comment on your post and provide some suggestions or feedback for MTRX Studio owners. Regards |
#3
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OK, I've got it figured out and it seems it all comes down to problems in the GUI design (in DADman 5.5.0). The hardware can be configured and is working, but the GUI will not show certain connections when bass management is active. They do show if you remove bass management. This is a design issue with the GUI as far as I'm concerned. The connections should show in the connection matrix independently of bass management being on or off.
A second thing that is very confusing and awkward is that if you have more than one source selected that goes to the same output, all the connections to that output disappear. These are the same connections that disappear when bass management is active. If you have selected switched (and bass management is off) - you are OK because you cannot select more than one source. If you have selected sum (and bass management is off), if you select only one interface, you are OK, but more than one - they all disappear. A third thing that is confusing is that some (not all) connections cannot be modified. The ones that cannot be modified are the same ones that disappear when bass management is active or when multiple selected interfaces drive an output. Perhaps the one thing that seems to be consistent about the connections that disappear is that they are associated with an output that has multiple sources mapped to it. It is possible to add/modify connections on an input with multiple outputs on the outputs that have only a single input. I've updated the problem I opened with AVID to describe what I found. I'm hoping that the new DADman in beta that supports Monterey addresses most of this. I feel there are a number of usability/design issues with the GUI - but I think that should be a separate thread Last edited by ric982; 06-07-2022 at 05:19 PM. Reason: typo |
#4
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These aren't problems. They are intentional. When you assign an input to a source or an output to a speaker set, the management of those i/o are taken out of Con. You then have to manage them in Mon. It's an indicator to use Mon to manage -- they aren't managed in 2 places.
When in SUM mode and active, you are not routing inputs to outputs now. The input is going to a DSP mixer and the output from the DSP mixer is routed to the output. That is why that happens. A single source going to an output is directly connected. Multiple sum to a dsp mixer. Quote:
__________________
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#5
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Hi BSCOUT,
No disrespect, but I think I disagree with your view a little. I've pretty much figured things out and I think there are some design choices for the GUI that a problem, but I can workaround them. The following was the feedback I put in the problem I opened with AVID: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I will say that the following behaviors are probably an issue for you (DADman) to consider addressing at some point. a) When you have more than on input channel enabled on an output channel enabled, the connections for that output channel disappear on the CON matrix. I understand that this requires a sum resource, but I think that is not a reason to disappear the connection. I would suggest the desired behavior is to show the "OR" of all enabled connections in dark blue when they are in the window. You could perhaps add an indication to the output that their are multiple inputs (e.g. blue dot with a plus sign). b) When you turn on Bass Management for a given monitor output, the output channels behave as if there are multiple inputs enabled (even if only one input is enabled - i.e. they all disappear). If you fix (a), perhaps (b) will go away. At any rate, I think turning on Bass management should not cause connections to disappear in the GUI. c) It seems perhaps a bad idea to allow connections to be created that aren't associated with the monitor profile. You can cllck in the CON matrix and create/remove/modify connections that are not associated with any source or output. They actually work too. But they are not save with the monitor profile and they persist even when there is no monitor profile as described below. d) There are things that can persist after a monitor profile is closed (or even after starting DADman with no configuration or monitor profile file): - Labels on the channels (they show in several places, but they are all the same lablel on a given channel). - Connections made in the CON matrix that are not associated with any source or output. - I noticed once, that there was a hidden connection that persisted somehow. It was on one output channel (light blue dot but nothing was checked). The only think that should probably persist after closing a monitor profile is the device list and the GUI settings. There are also things that are inaccurate or missing from the operator manual for version 5.5.0 that should be updated. 1) The behavior of connection indications as discussed above is not described (the disappearing part). 2) The GUI now automatically creates connections from a source to all outputs based on channel role. Once created you cannot modify it by clicking on a dot. The CON section says you can. And it gets more confusing that you can click out anywhere in the matrix that does not have a source or output tied to it. 3) There is generally no discussion about how a monitor definition works. It shows you can have N sources and M outputs but it's not clear till you are into it that there can only be one output selected (e.g. it's kind of M to 1) and that all the sources are going to be associated with all the outputs. 4) The behavior of (2) and (3) means that you need to have different monitor definitions when you want a given source to go to two disparate outputs. For example, if the first monitor profile is for your speakers in the room, this monitor profile cannot be used to route say some MIC pre's to the DAW. Because the MIC pre's are automatically connected to the speakers. So now you need a second monitor definition that has the MIC pre's as the source and the output is whatever interface you're connecting to the host with. In this case, you would define the monitor profile with as CONTROL ROOM and EUCON none. A similiar problem applies to outputs from the DAW to line outs on the physical unit used for exampe INSERTS or other signals like external inputs to SYNTHS or whatever. One important case not mentioned is how you would do a wrap back from say a DANTE input to a DANTE output. Again, this is just another control room monitor definition with just that wrap back in it. The manual deficiencies are an issue that wasted a lot of my time. I can work around the limitations I described above. The biggest issue for me is that if I need to see what's going on in the CON matrix, I need to turn off Bass Management for a moment, and probably pick a single source on each monitor. |
#6
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I think you don't understand DADman yet from your complaints. Not your fault -- should be a better manual or videos.
The things that persist are from the setup (which is a separate file from the profile.) And it is stored on the MTRX itself (the routing) which is how it operates when the computer/DADman are off. The CON section is for routing. It is separate from MON which is monitoring. MON changes are reflected in the CON section because they make resources unavailable. But these are two separate things. The CON is the heart of the DADman system. The MON is an add-on. Reading through your complaints most of them seem because you are not working in the right area. For instance, mic pres shouldn't be anywhere in the Mon section (unless talkback mic.) They should be routed in the CON section. Yes, if you want to send the same source to different outputs at the same time in Mon, you need to set up different "monitors". As for "roles", if you want to redefine what a Left channel goes, use fold downs (you can create your own.) But overall, looks like you've devoted too much time to Mon which is just that -- monitoring. Con is where things like real routing should be (including sending inputs to multiple places at once). And Con is stored (you need to save and recall or auto-recall) in the setup file ("dms") while the monitoring section is stored in the profile file ("dmprof".) Hopefully Jeffro/Avid will chime in because I believe he made a bunch of videos explaining how to work with DADman.
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Pro Tools Ult 2023.3, RME BBF Pro + MADIface Pro • Mac Mini 14,12 - 12 core - macOS 13.3.1 • RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 core • QNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3 Pro Tools Ult 2022.7, HDX 3, MTRX/SPQ, HD Omni • S1 x 2, FireHD x 2, Dock, iPad • Mac Pro 5,1 - 3.06 GHz 12 core - macOS 10.13.6 • RAM 64GB, SSD 4 x 4TB, GPU GTX 980 4GB |
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