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  #1  
Old 07-21-2013, 10:36 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
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Default VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

Avid - I believe you really need to show the VCA and Mute Group assignments right on the Input and Output screens. I have seen many delays/fumbling at live shows due to problems created as a result of no convenient view of these assignments, and engineers wondering why a last minute MC mic added to their show is not working, and fumbling thru all the VCAs to see which one it is a part of. I have also seen mis-assignments confusing engineers on this console. . . Sure it is cool the channels assignments are all shown in a list with the VCA, and we can also see the assignments on the control surface when in the right mode, but to me the quickest and easiest is look at on-the-fly is the actual Input or Output screen view and see the assignments. Every engineer I have talked to over this console has the same opinion. . . This should have been addressed a long time ago. . . Small buttons/indicators by the fader on the Monitor would do it. . . Please fix this!
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Old 07-22-2013, 02:03 AM
xcx xcx is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

in my opinion the show members button and the show members view (surface & screen) works fine. there are consoles out there which have a far more worse vca/mg organization.

and, you can clear all members super fast as well.. if an engineer works with the same vca/mg layout all the time and has his own groups organized i don't see a reason to fix anything from the manufactures side.
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2013, 07:02 AM
vikingthor vikingthor is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

I agree with xcx, i don't realy get your point Howardk. Or maybe i'm missing it. As there are multiple ways to see the members of a vca.

- The spil function can be really helpful
- When assigning vca you can see which channels are assigned to the vca's
- When pressing Alt+Multi assign button you can see which channels are assigned to the vca's. (this I favor most)
- And of course the output window vca tab, you can see the selected members.

i think these are all really helpfull things to get things visual. Of course having a few led indicators by every channel are also great, as we are used of the analoog midas consoles. maybe nice for the new console line.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:27 AM
Greg C Greg C is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

In any case, you should post your feature request in the correct spot, http://avid.venue.ideascale.com
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:58 PM
noclevername noclevername is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

There are two things I haven't seen mentioned yet which I find quite helpful
1. The channels that are affected by VCA's have the addtional red, semi-transparent fader that show what their level is according to the VCA Level on the external monitor.
2. On the Profile surface when you bring a fader up and down which has a VCA assignment the scribble strip changes to read (VCA X). I was on an SC48 the other day and I don't think it did that but I really didn't have enough time to explore that further.

I have a hard time with the way you worded your sentence "Please fix this" as if this is a functional issue. This is the way the console was built and certain choices were made on how information is relayed to the user. I agree with the suggestion that you should use the idea scale site to voice your concern about something that you'd like to see different about the console but to say something is wrong with it takes it a little too far. The site has all kinds of stuff the others have suggested or don't like and feel strongly about. I feel like that should be the place you take that.
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2014, 12:43 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

I rarely get back here but happened to check back here on things. . . hard to believe you guys don't see the issue. . . I must work in a different world, where someone says to FOH, I need another MC mic 15 seconds before the walk out, and you have to grab an open channel and set it up. . . it might be the headliners show file, and you don't have time to check thru all the mute groups or VCA's to see if it assigned to something that is turned off. . . you just need to patch the input, ensure L/R routing is engaged, engage the limiter, take a quick guess at the input trim, push the fader up and turn up the HPF and some EQ to suit the voice. I can't count the times I have seen an engineer fumbling to take a channel out of VCA, or mute groups, with a dead mic MC, or other on-the-fly situations. It is 2014, there is a computer screen to display and change the information. Let's use it.

The suggestion is to show Mute/VCA assignments for a selected channel, or output, on the display, and be able to change the setting there as well. . . . this omission is a shortfall that needs to be fixed.
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Last edited by Howardk; 04-25-2014 at 02:20 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:08 AM
Jhana Jhana is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

I don't really see this being an issue. Mutes are identified by flashing mute on the channel. That tells you that it's either muted at a mute group or a VCA. In either case, you can override that and unmute it manually while leaving the VCA or mute group still muted.

As for VCA assignments, it's not really relevant. On the input screen, you DO see the "effective" fader level as affected by VCAs. It's the red outline. As Noclevername mentioned, if the VCA fader is all the way down, the scribble strip will blink a warning. If this is a common enough problem, maybe you need to talk to the band engineers before the show and have them set up a few extra MC channels for you. I always have the band engineer set up my own stereo playback channel (apart from the band's walk-in music), 2 MC mic channels and a spare within their show file any time that I'm sharing a console.
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  #8  
Old 04-23-2014, 03:06 PM
vikingthor vikingthor is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

I honestly think that Venue already doing great at this point. Especially when comparing to other consoles like Midas PRO series. Which don't have red fader indicator warning above the channels when vca's are turned off.

Quote:
The suggestion is to show Mute/VCA assignments for a selected channel, or output, on the display, and be able to change the setting there as well. . . . this omission is a shortfall that needs to be fixed.
For seeing mute groups on the console display use the show member buttun, and for seeing quickly vca members use the alt key and the multi assign key (for vca's).
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2014, 01:09 PM
xcx xcx is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

i have seen engineers going completely nuts due to (their own) wrong vca a assignments on digico desks as well. as digico, venue, midas is out for "good" vca assignment screens... that just leaves m7 & cl yamahas in play. seeing the VCA assignment in the channel view is more or less the only advantage on an m7.

as always. if you are organized stuff like vca mutes just dont happen.
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:24 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
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Default Re: VCA and Mute Groups - Show on Input/output Screen

Yes there are ways to avoid trouble, but I see the problems occur in the field, and a number of the suggestions above have related gotchas that can and do occur. . . . it would be better to have this feature, and there is no down side to it. . . it is simply more intuitive, and less buried, when trying to ascertain and change these settings quickly. Defending this missing functional operation is a bit like saying VCA spill negates the need for Customer Layers for faders. . . maybe for some, but for many of us being able to call us custom layers of faders is so much better that there is no comparison and it should be in the plans of every digital console design.

Many FOH and System techs use a different consoles from day to day, or the same desks with different software versions, and don't have every detail or every desk/version committed to memory, as we fly around the country or to the next festival with zero sleep and a long day of bands and organizers changing the game minute to minute. We see many features across the many digital products, some make sense, some not so much. . . and sometimes we forget which board does what, which way. This aspect of the Avid consoles falls short amongst certain "others". The system techs that come out with the gear to the shows I mix agree, and appreciate that aspect of "other" consoles better. Since Avid is the first choice on my rider, at this point in time, I care a little more about what "Avid" does than I do about "other" consoles.

In addition, I must say the S3L is total disaster of a control surface in my opinion and Waves not supporting HDX is really sad statement.
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Last edited by Howardk; 04-25-2014 at 09:13 AM.
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