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  #1  
Old 05-27-2007, 11:07 AM
djrobbie djrobbie is offline
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Default Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..Help!

Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studio via ISDN patch?

I'm currently working at an Ad agency post production dept. doing audio post.
We often patch to other studios via ISDN (Zepher). when i'm patch to other
studio's I have to mute my talkback so as not to cause feedback in the other studio.
sometimes i don't mute it fast enough and there is some feedback. this is very unprofessional
There is a way to eleavate this issue.
i'm sure it's very easy, like a cue send from our talkback.
I just cant figure it out.
if you have any suggest please let me know.

thanx

Robbie
SF CA
415.307.0627
robbie@filmwurks.net
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2007, 06:50 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..Help!

Your exact situation is not clear. What device are you using for talkback now? Does the client push a button in order to be heard? Does that button simultaneously mute or dim your monitor speakers? Why do you think the feedback is happening at the other studio and not yours? You have to mute YOUR talkback signal to stop feedback, is that right? What exactly is and is not in the feeds you are sending back to the other studio?
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:13 AM
djrobbie djrobbie is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

Thanx Richard for you reply to my situation.
I know my situation is vague however i'm writing this request on behald of a friend of mind
I have not been present when the issue comes up during a session while patched to another studio.

I'm currenly using a ProControl for my talkback. and yes the pro control should automaticly be dimming the talkback signal when I press talkback. I don't think the client studio has to push a button to heard us. We know the feedback is happening because we have had complains about it and had talent threatin to walk out of the other studio. yes i have to completly mute my talkback to stop the feedback. On our end we are sending only one feed to the other studio (talkback) and receiving one mono feed for talent which I belive contains there talkback also when the other engineer needs to speak with us.

Is this more clear now? Thanx so much. I will check that my talkback button is dimming the incoming signal which i now think may be the issue. That is what must be causing the problem.


I will fully investigate the situation tomorrow.

Best,
Robbie
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:20 PM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

It sounds like there is a mistake at one end or the other. Are you saying that when your talkback button is pushed there is feedback that you do not hear (because your speakers are muted perhaps) but is killing them in their headphones? And that happens only when your talkback button is pressed? Information is missing here because that doesn't make any sense. Is there any chance you are accidentally sending their signal back to them? What they send you should not be turned around back to them at any time. That's all I can think of that might cause feedback that you do not hear, and feedback would only happen if they are using talkback speakers for the talent (instead of patching your talkback send into their talent cans only.) If the feedback is happening between your speakers and your talkback microphone, as if your speakers are not dimming enough during talkback operation, you will definitely hear it. (BTW, speaker dim is usually around 20-25db, almost never less than 15db.)
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:46 PM
CLee CLee is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

It sounds like the feedback they are refering to is not feedback but foldback of their signal back to them. You can not send your 2-mix over the ISDN or they will hear themselves delayed. If all you need to send is your talkback send the TB out to the ISDN in. You normally record talent at your studio right?

I have a template for ISDN pro control sessions. I can email it to you if you like.
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:20 PM
djrobbie djrobbie is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

I think your on to something...yes. it's not really feedback anyway and I knew that, but did not know the proper term. Is the template your have 7.3 compatable?
please email to: robbie@filmwurks.net


best,

robbie
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  #7  
Old 05-29-2007, 06:48 AM
CLee CLee is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

It's in 6 but you can open it in 7. I'll send it to you later today after my client leave.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:06 AM
tj_davies tj_davies is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

The way we do ISDN is as follows:

Our routing in the studio: Output 1+2 and talkback are connected with the ISDN hardware
Output 3+4 are L and R of our Surround Setup, so a different listening setting - 3+4 is not connected to the ISDN-hardware.

Most of the time there has been production on the project already, so there is sound design and music already in the session. SFX is routed to the *sfx bus, music to the *music bus etc. and all busses are routed to the *master bus, which is going to Output 1+2.

When we record via ISDN, we setup two additional busses: *isdn1+2 and *isdn3+4
and an additional Master Track: Output 3+4

The ISDN-Track is routed to Output 3+4. And while recording ISDN we listen to Output3+4.

Once this is done, we add a bus to every track that is routed directly to either 1+2 or 3+4.
Anything routed to 1+2 gets a bus assigned to *isdn3+4.
Anything routed to 3+4 gets a bus assigned to *isdn1+2.

When recording, make sure to mute the *isdn1+2 bus on the ISDN-Track, other wise you'll get the feedback.
We always have two tracks when recording: one is the recording track, the other one is the playback track, for example the client wants to listen to take 4 again, we pull it up to the playback track (which is also routed to Output 3+4 with the *isdn1+2 bus assigned) - that way we can always stay in "Input Only"-Mode and can hear the vocal talent while playing back, just in case he says something important.
Just as a side note, we work with playlists, so every take has its own playlist. That way we can comment each take. The playback track is the track that carries all good takes. So if the client listens to a take and says he likes that one, we keep it and go to another playlist, just in case the client wants to have a selection of good takes.

Hope this makes sense at all. Quite difficult to explain.
Timothy
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:55 PM
djrobbie djrobbie is offline
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Default Re: Mix minus for talkback when patched to other studios ..H

wow this is incredible. i'm still wrapping my head around it. This is a very complex setup.

Is there a simpler way to do this?


Are setup is much smaller: stereo for one thing, pro control, 2 192's. Most of what we do is connect to other studio's where the
talent is and record them. So what can I do to garunteee that i don't get this foldback issue. I really don't want to have to mute anything yet have a seemless interaction between my talkback and the other studio's talkback.

thanx again

Robbie
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  #10  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:56 PM
djrobbie djrobbie is offline
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Default foldback issue

wow this is incredible. i'm still wrapping my head around it. This is a very complex setup.

Is there a simpler way to do this?


Are setup is much smaller: stereo for one thing, pro control, 2 192's. Most of what we do is connect to other studio's where the
talent is and record them. So what can I do to garunteee that i don't get this foldback issue. I really don't want to have to mute anything yet have a seemless interaction between my talkback and the other studio's talkback.

thanx again

Robbie
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