Panning bleed/crosstalk issues inside of Pro Tools

[friggindrummer]

Hi guys,

I'm having crosstalk issues inside of Pro Tools. I've read several posts relating to this and haven't seen a fix for this issue. Most people seem to be having the issue AFTER the track is bounced down and played through an iPod or something similar that is prone to crosstalk. My problem exists INSIDE of Pro Tools. Here goes:

I've created a session that I want to use as a live backing track for my band. The track is a 24 bit session, that will be bounced down to 16 bit WAV, interleaved at 44.1 kHz. I'm running the project on a Focusrite Saffire Pro24.

The session consists of (3) stereo audio tracks, running to outputs 1-2 (stereo). There is also (1) mono click track and (1) mono audio track. The mono audio track is just my voice, counting off 1 bar along with the click, as a place holder to keep me synched with the backing tracks. This is so I can clearly hear the starting point of the track even with louder stage volumes/crowd noise. Both mono tracks are running to output 1 (mono).

The problem is that I can faintly hear my voice and the click coming through the right channel. I've confirmed this by shutting off my left monitor completely. Stranger still, when I solo the mono audio track (my voice), you can still hear the click faintly. Through a good PA, any audience member could hear this.

Has anyone seen this before? Is there a fix or something I've missed?

[shotgunndunn]

I wish I knew. I have had issues with the click track panned hard and still have some in the opposite channel. I think it's a bug with the pan law algorithm.

[bmuth]

Are your voice/click track outputs assigned directly to output 1, or sent to 1-2 and then panned?
I'm thinking you may have success if you STOP involving the output mixer at all- send backing tracks out output 1, send click/voice out output 2. If you need the backing tracks to come out output 2 also, hold down control during your output assignment of these tracks and it will let you assign the track to more than one (mono in this case) output destination.
This may be a usable workaround for you anyhow.... even though it shouldn't be that hard!


forgive me if this is too obvious, but is the faint click in your solo'd-voice track simply bleed from when it was recorded?

[friggindrummer]

bmuth - thanks for responding. No, the click is not headphone bleed. It continues on even after the end of my solo'd voice waveform. Again, both are very faint.

Yes, my voice/click tracks are assigned directly to output 1.

I tried sending the backing tracks to output 2, and the click/voice tracks to output 1, (and vice versa) and I'm still getting the bleed.

It may help if I explain my end goal:
1. Bounce the mix down to a stereo WAV file
2. Drop onto iPad
3. Run a combo 1/8" stereo to (2) 1/4" TS cable out of iPad, into a 2 channel mixer that I control.
4. Send the left channel back out of the 2 channel mixer to my headphones
5. Send right channel out to FOH mixer.

This is why I would need total separation of both channels.

I'm definitely thinking there's an issue with the pan law algorithm, as shotgunndunn suggested. Anyone ever heard of the pan settings NOT being set to absolute zero before? Could that be the issue?

[jasonthurley]

Ive not once had an issue like this in any version Ive used.... This to me sounds like corrupt data. I would recommend uninstalling completely and doing a complete fresh install of PT and all drivers associated. If indeed it is within Pro Tools that is. I have had (on many desks but mainly Mackie) crosstalk and bleed through mixers even when completely muted, but never in Pro tools itself.

[jasonthurley]

I would also recommend just using all mono tracks.... there is no reason to send a stereo pair to a mono output, just make it mono in the forst place and you dont have to send it to both left and right..... just the right track (the one your sending to FOH mixer) so they are completely isolated by routing instead of pan. This will bypass the pan law algorithm completely and will tell you if its a pan algorithm bug right away.

[janmuths]

Route the click to mono out 1. Create 2 mono masters, one for out 1, one for out 2. Keep all other signals routed to 1 and 2, pan to taste.
Turn on the click, bounce only the output 1. See bounce dialogue window.
Mute, disable or delete the click. Now only bounce out 2. If there is still click audible it must be somewhere in your other signals. Bleed when recording??? If not proceed as follows:
You now have 2 mono files. Re-import, move onto 1stereo track, from there export selected as files: interleaved stereo. The right side is free of click. If it reappears it must be due to xtalk on the playback device.

Hope this helps.

[friggindrummer]

Thanks for the input. It's sounding to me like the issue may live inside my laptop vs the Saffire.

Here's where I stand:

1. Converted all stereo tracks to mono tracks by bouncing audio out as mono and re-importing to new tracks.
2. Bounced the click and my vocal out as mono WAVs, reimported these onto new mono tracks as well.
3. Made all old tracks inactive, basically recreated the whole session
4. Routed all backing tracks to Mono1, and click & voice to Mono2.

Whether I playback through the Saffire or the audio out on my Macbook Pro, I'm still getting crosstalk. The laptop seems to be the common denominator.

[necjamc]

I just played back a mono guitar inside PT, panned hard left I do get a faint signal in the right speaker. Same thing with sending it to just L instead of LT. I never noticed this. This is through my Eleven Rack, Audio track only.

[friggindrummer]

@necjamc - that is interesting that you're hearing the same thing on totally different hardware. None of my engineer friends have been able to figure this out either, but they are also not running PTX. Hmmm - a clue?

I think it's time to call Avid.