Brand new to pro tools

[Holty99]

I am in a band and am interested in getting into pro tools as a way of recording on my own. What is the least expensive way to get started, as far as software and hardware I will need. I will have to mic a full drum kit so I'm thinking I will need at least 8 mics recording simultaneously. I have a PC running windows XP and already own mics and headphones. Thanks to anyone for their advise.

[spkguitar]

"8 inputs" and "least expensive" don't really work in the same sentence when you are talking about protools, I'm afraid.

mBox = $450 = 2 inputs and outputs
002r = $1200 = 8 analog ins/outs, 8 digital optical ins/outs, 2 digital s/pdif = 18 total i/o
002 = $2200 = same as 002r with mixer built in.

You can, however, pick up a used 001 on eBay for about the same price as the mBox, and for the money, would probably be your best bet. If you go that route, you will not be able to use the most current version of the software, as the 001 is no longer being supported, but the versions of the software that are available for it are very workable and usable, and would definitely get you started. Your upgrade path will be more expensive, but...
And with either of the milti-input interfaces, you're still going to need preamps for 8 mic inputs, so a small mixer with direct outs will be necessary.

Whatever you decide, you will definitely first NEED to check out the compatibility page and make sure the computer you have is going to work with the digidesign hardware. This is very important, and an expensive mistake many new users make (myself included). Digi hardware is very picky about what computer hardware it runs with. Though it has happened in some cases, don't expect to just be able to "plug and play". Protools is definitely not like that.

Basically, be prepared. Read all that you can about it before purchasing. All of the documentation is available online for free.

[SimpleNatureSpirit]

...and once you checked the compatability pages, check it again to read what's not on the list. MBox seems to be the worst culpret for incompatability, but PTLE is seriously becoming a limitation to older PC's with way to much overhead.
Consider DigiDesign if you want compatable sessions with most studios. Also keep in mind that ProTools LE comes with a standard set of basic plugins. These are not heavy duty enough to really do serious sound design. The free inlcuded LE productivity pack (fancy name, huh) are not anything special to count on either. You could consider buying the Factory Bundle for the extra $'s, but even these are a limited set of semi-professional tools. Whatever you spend on your system, plan on spending about the same on quality plugins like a Waves Gold/Platinum Bundle or others that can be found throughout the DUC.
DigiDesign uses a proprietary protocol called RTAS (Real Time Audio Suite) which are almost always more expensive than VST plugins. ProTools is also proprietary to the hardware, although you have an ASIO interface. Your apps would have to support ASIO to make use of your Digi hardware.
Do your homework. This is not a simple decision any more and there is a lot of competition out there these days. I will admit, ProTools LE is simple to use and is powerful. Get to know the power players and the way they interface with your computer.
The key to good hardware is the quality of the Analog to Digital converters and the quality of the pre-amps. PTLE hardware falls in the neighborhood of "Good". Then again, in this industry, you often get what you pay for (if your lucky).
I've been on the Digi Ride... and now it is time to explore some of the new rides out there. As the old saying goes "It's been real and it's been fun, but I can't say it was real fun" IMHO

[Holty99]

Thanks for all the valuable info from the two responces. Looks like I have some homework to do. How come this website doesn't talk about the digi 002 or 002R? And why doesn't Digidesign get together with MS or Intel to work out the incompatibilities? Are there any other options for good quality sound on a budget of say $1000 - $1500 or am I asking for too much?

[SimpleNatureSpirit]

Digidesign has decided that going alone and working with a proprietary app was the way to keep PT (&PTLE) close to themselves and not just anyone can break into their little club. Many have done this in the past only to find themselves rewriting all their code to conform to M$'s standards. Digi hasn't decided to go that route yet, and with technology exploding in the PC market, they are obviously falling behind further and faster. This is a true shame because PTLE is an onramp for home studios. There is just to big a jump between LE and TDM that most of us just can't handle. It's like the onramp is 10 feet long and traffic is going 100MPH on the other end. I am crossing my fingers waiting for V7 to see if DigiDesign will wise up, or if I just quietly back up and drive on the sideroads and enjoy the scenery.
As for what's out there, there is a lot. Think of it this way; the whole audio chain defines the quality at which you wish to work. It begins with the microphones, then pre-amps, then DAW, then application, then media. You can capture good music and manipulate it to sound great. Just remember that garbage in will always be garbage out. Think of all the professionals in the audi chain also. You have the talent, who know how to make music, you have producers who know how to organize people and product, you have engineers who know how to capture good sound, you have mastering engineers who know how to finalize albums, you have mastering houses that create the final product. Obviously, if music is to be your bread and butter, you have to get to know a few people.

So what are we really doing buying DAWs? We are finding a place in the chain, and polishing our abilities. The tools are there to become better or simply understand the process. As a band, you want to know how you sound and be able to impress a few people to get ahead. As an engineer, you need the tools and experience to make good musicians sound great. As producers, you need to understand what all is involved in the process. Each of these disapplines will cross over to some extent. That is why the low end DAW and toys. Live gigs become very demanding on the budget for gear, so musicians are already becoming engineers... and so on.

Now to answer your real question, where do you begin with a DAW?
You are shopping for three things:
1. A DAW... Digital Audio Workstation, so called. This is two items:
a. A software package in which you record tracks and manipulate audio (even if it is MIDI, it's final product is audio). You have about 5 players you need to choose from: ProTools, Digital Performer, Nuendo, Sonar, or Cubase (there is likely more in the range of quality) Price range is $500- to $1500- for reasonable packages
b. An interface to your computer. This is as important as the software. Most hardware is compatable with all the software packages. They use something called ASIO to interface software to hardware. Again, you have half a dozen serious player in this market. Price range here is about the same as the software (most hardware will come with light versions of software)
2. Plugins and softsynth: This is an investment not made lightly. These too come in price ranges of $200- to $2000-. A beginner can do without this or choose hardware for this. Either way, to do cool stuff, you need cool stuff and in the digital audio world, you have to pay for that.
3. Quality audio capture devices. You DAW hardware will come with pre-amps and I/O. Depending on how much you pay here, you might be able to put off getting more pre-amps and A/D&D/A converters for a while. If you want to capture 16 tracks at a time, you will need hardware to handle that. There are lots of solutions to expand your hardware to more inputs later. DigiOO2 can be connected to an 8 input ADAT interface to get a full 16 tracks, and 2 more using SPDIF. The good thing about this is that this expansion is already digital and will not require another conversion in the chain.
4. Again, audio FX hardware. If you are planning live gigs, you'll get hooked on 'outboard gear' considering each member of the band will have their favorites and want to practice with them at home too. These units are mostly under $1000- with some great features. Lexicon makes my favorite hardware gear. You can also use these boxes when doing your mixing and mastering, so they have a dual use (always try to capture raw audio into your DAW and manipulate it later in a mix session).
5. Quality monitors for playback. You want to hear what is being played from your system accurately. Put about $1000- aside for a couple of quality powered monitors.

I know this is getting long but I do wish to share the general considerations you might want to make up front to make an informed decision. By the time you are comfortable with the things you need and the things you want, you will be into your setup for about $5000- plus a computer ($1000- to $2500-). I have a home studio as a hobby and I am into it for at least that although I'd rather not count it up now. I do use eBay. Somehow it seems Pro Audio people on eBay are pretty straight up folk. You can save almost a third on most major investments.

You have a great wealth of knowledge here on the DUC as well as on other forums that can help answer your questions. We are here to share our experiences and help people understand the ins&outs of the biz. Use the General Discussion area for OT or basic inquiries and someone is bound to give you direction as you build your studio.

...and since this is Digi's forumn, and you have a pretty clear budget for getting started, the DigiOO2R is a good start. As long as your PC/MAC is compatable per the compatability pages, the OO2R will work fine. MBox seems to be the most picky, but that unit is short of your needs anyhow. You get a simple to use Workstation and good quality hardware (learn about DigiOO2's power harness issues, however). Visit your neighborhood Guitar Center and move in for a day or two. Tell them what you want and tell them you wanna play with it. And above all, Enjoy the Venture

[Holty99]

Thanks again for all the great info. So lets say that I've decided to go with the digi 002R. I checked for my computer compatibility and every thing looks good. I have some pretty good mics, a headphone amp and some decent monitors. What's the next thing I'm going to need to get really cool "studio quality" sound. I read that the plug-in bundle that comes with PTLE is somewhat limited. So what are the good plug-ins to look for so that I can do the "cool stuff"?

[Holty99]

I looked on musiciansfriend.com and for $1199.00 digi 002R comes with what they call "an incredible Music Production Enhancement Suite that includes" Reason Adapted, Ableton Live Digidesign Edition, IK Multimedia SampleTank SE, IK Multimedia AmpliTube LE, and IK Multimedia T-RackS EQ. Are these all LE versions of the software and are they any good? Then they also have digi 002R with another software bundle for $1549.00. It comes with
Bomb Factory BF-3A
moogerfooger Ring Modulator
moogerfooger Analog Delay
SansAmp PSA-1
Cosmonaut Voice
JOEMEEK SC2 Compressor
JOEMEEK VC5 Meekualizer
Tel-Ray Variable Delay
Voce® Spin
Voce Chorus/Vibrato
So my question is this; is this upgrade worth the extra $350? Also, will this setup allow me to produce some excellent quality recordings or am I still going to need more dough for other plug-ins?

[spkguitar]

The basic package will allow you to produce some excellent quality recordings. It's not the gear that does the work, it's the man. Your ears, and proper engineering skills are the best tools for getting a "studio quality sound".

However, if you want to make it sound the best you can, and you've got money to spend, buy good microphones and preamps, not plugins. If the sound is crap to begin with, or recorded incorrectly, or through crappy gear, no plugin in the world will make it any different. They might make it sound more "polished", but it will still be a turd.

If you're still dead set on plugins, there have been several discussions about the worth of "Factory Bundle", including This recent one, as well as numerous other discussions about plugins on this board. The search feature works pretty well, and can yield some good results with phrases like "favorite plugins" or "best plugins" or just "plugins" over the past year or two.