Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-12-2022, 06:09 PM
dannymeltzer dannymeltzer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Default Grouping

I work on very long audiobook mixes, up to 20+ hrs in a session. I sometimes group the long voice edits [with many thousands of edits] just to make it less unwieldy to move long sections of things around in a session.

I find that the more I group clips, long sections of clips with many, many edits in them--or group several groups together in ANOTHER group--this tends to really bog down the session. I get spinning wheels or delays for actions. Not all the time but it happens and more with more grouping

Is this just the way PT is? Or anything I can do to help performance here? I was hoping when I got a new Mac Studio and some NVMe's that I would be able to blast through some of these big sessions more easily but it does not seem to be the case.

Should I just avoid grouping?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

Mac Studio M1 Ultra / 64GB memory / OS Monterey 12.5 / PT Ultimate 2022.7 / Attached OWC Thunderbay with NVMe
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-12-2022, 10:47 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Grouping

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannymeltzer View Post
I work on very long audiobook mixes, up to 20+ hrs in a session. I sometimes group the long voice edits [with many thousands of edits] just to make it less unwieldy to move long sections of things around in a session.

I find that the more I group clips, long sections of clips with many, many edits in them--or group several groups together in ANOTHER group--this tends to really bog down the session. I get spinning wheels or delays for actions. Not all the time but it happens and more with more grouping

Is this just the way PT is? Or anything I can do to help performance here? I was hoping when I got a new Mac Studio and some NVMe's that I would be able to blast through some of these big sessions more easily but it does not seem to be the case.

Should I just avoid grouping?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

Mac Studio M1 Ultra / 64GB memory / OS Monterey 12.5 / PT Ultimate 2022.7 / Attached OWC Thunderbay with NVMe
How much Ram do you have allocated to disk cache?

Can you post a screen shot of your system usage window in Pro Tools?

Try increasing your disk cache amount and see if you get better performance. With that much audio in your session there’s a lot of SSD reading and writing happening. Even with the fast drives it’s possible the system is bogging down with having to retain all the clip group data.
Otherwise it’s possible the issue has to due with whatever processing is happening on the track.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-12-2022, 11:15 PM
Ben Jenssen's Avatar
Ben Jenssen Ben Jenssen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oslo
Posts: 4,661
Default Re: Grouping

Quote:
Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
How much Ram do you have allocated to disk cache?

Can you post a screen shot of your system usage window in Pro Tools?

Try increasing your disk cache amount and see if you get better performance. With that much audio in your session there’s a lot of SSD reading and writing happening. Even with the fast drives it’s possible the system is bogging down with having to retain all the clip group data.
Otherwise it’s possible the issue has to due with whatever processing is happening on the track.
He's doing audio books. I doubt that he's dealing with hundreds of tracks, so I don't think data thruput is the issue. My guess is this is PT. Just my 2cents.
__________________
Life-long audio enthusiast and small studio owner. Retired.
Mac Mini M1, 16GB RAM. 512GBinternal(3000MB/s),2TB(1300MB/s),2TB(350MB/s)
MacOS 11.6.8. PT 2020.12.1 (Reinstatement on hold for M3 macs and AS native PT)
Topping D50 DAC, Dynaudio BM6p, Artist Mix, SSL UC1, EuControl on iPad.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-13-2022, 03:40 AM
thin ice thin ice is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 846
Default Re: Grouping

Are you working on the internal drive, which should be the fastest? A different discipline, but I know Beat Detective eventually slows things down with thousands of regions created.
__________________
Mac Mini M1 16 GB
OS 12.5.1
PT 2022.7.0

Mac Pro Quad Core
OS 10.8
PT9HD
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:04 PM
dannymeltzer dannymeltzer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Default Re: Grouping

Quote:
Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
How much Ram do you have allocated to disk cache?

Can you post a screen shot of your system usage window in Pro Tools?

Try increasing your disk cache amount and see if you get better performance. With that much audio in your session there’s a lot of SSD reading and writing happening. Even with the fast drives it’s possible the system is bogging down with having to retain all the clip group data.
Otherwise it’s possible the issue has to due with whatever processing is happening on the track.
Disk playback cache I just have set to NORMAL. Should I set to a specific number? It is audiobooks but these sometimes turn into elaborate mixes with lots of music and effects, 30 tracks is not unheard of. Not nearly as many as a film mix but it's not always just a couple tracks. Media drive is an NVMe inside an OWC Thunderbay connected with thunderbolt. I can't think of how to get faster drive speeds than this, I am up to around 2700 MB/s. System usage window screen shot here:

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:36 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Grouping

I doubt it’s the drive but you’d need to rule out anything else to determine. My suggestions are this.

Increase your disk cache to 16GB. You have plenty of RAM. See if you notice any improvements when moving clip groups.

If you do not, then copy the entire session to your internal drive. Then do a similar test. Keeping the same disk cache.

Lastly, this could be a plug-in issue as I suggested. Run the session with all plugs inactive. Not just bypassed. Then make some big edits with clip groups as you say would cause the SWOD. You’re going to have to do some troubleshooting here to determine if this is a bug in 2022.7 or a system issue.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:41 PM
dannymeltzer dannymeltzer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Default Re: Grouping

Ok thanks, will try these things. So 16GB is better than the NORMAL setting? I never really understood what NORMAL meant as a setting but that is the default so I left it that way.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-13-2022, 07:18 PM
Ben Jenssen's Avatar
Ben Jenssen Ben Jenssen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oslo
Posts: 4,661
Default Re: Grouping

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannymeltzer View Post
Ok thanks, will try these things. So 16GB is better than the NORMAL setting? I never really understood what NORMAL meant as a setting but that is the default so I left it that way.
Normal = 'the way it used to be, before disk cache', IOW, no disk cache. You have to set it to something to have disk cache. Strange nomenclature.
__________________
Life-long audio enthusiast and small studio owner. Retired.
Mac Mini M1, 16GB RAM. 512GBinternal(3000MB/s),2TB(1300MB/s),2TB(350MB/s)
MacOS 11.6.8. PT 2020.12.1 (Reinstatement on hold for M3 macs and AS native PT)
Topping D50 DAC, Dynaudio BM6p, Artist Mix, SSL UC1, EuControl on iPad.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-14-2022, 06:42 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 916
Default Re: Grouping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen View Post
Normal = 'the way it used to be, before disk cache', IOW, no disk cache. You have to set it to something to have disk cache. Strange nomenclature.
Avid docs says Normal is automatic and dynamically allocates as needed.

An Avid rep once said in a video that Normal means off.

I haven't gotten a straight answer about which is correct.

OP, how many grouped clips are we talking? I find extraneous "auto-created clips" bog things down. I've had a ton of grouped clips in film sessions and haven't noticed a slowdown due to that. But I don't usually nest them, maybe that adds to the processing.
__________________
~Will
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-14-2022, 07:39 AM
dannymeltzer dannymeltzer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Default Re: Grouping

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Avid docs says Normal is automatic and dynamically allocates as needed.

An Avid rep once said in a video that Normal means off.

I haven't gotten a straight answer about which is correct.

OP, how many grouped clips are we talking? I find extraneous "auto-created clips" bog things down. I've had a ton of grouped clips in film sessions and haven't noticed a slowdown due to that. But I don't usually nest them, maybe that adds to the processing.
Thousands and thousands of clips. Imagine 1-3 edits between every sentence or word of someone speaking nonstop for 20 hours. I can see how the nesting would tax the system, was curious what others' experience was regarding this. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grouping problems! All group won't work, grouping channels together spontaneously farmfresh 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 7 02-18-2009 09:57 AM
Grouping O.G General Discussion 3 01-26-2009 10:50 AM
Grouping? shea 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 9 01-23-2009 02:17 PM
Grouping Numi 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 12-06-2008 10:29 AM
7.4 Grouping nanoweber General Discussion 0 03-05-2008 06:19 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:31 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com