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  #1  
Old 08-10-2022, 10:22 PM
Sonopolis Sonopolis is offline
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Default When was sample accurate automation introduced?

Hi all,

the title says it. When was sample accurate automation introduced in Pro Tools? I mean the fact that automation jumps on the edge of clips could no longer introduce audible pops. This was an issue with PT for a long time but it's gone for some versions now. However im dealing with a session now that was made on an old system and I'm confronted with this issue again.
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2022, 07:07 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: When was sample accurate automation introduced?

I don't think it has ever been 100% sample accurate except when doing offline bounces. (I think it was introduced when offline bounce came to PT)
If at all I'd say only volume and pan but clearly not for plugins.
Altiverb for example sometimes need several seconds to load a huge IR so if you place a setting change on a scene edge it won't recall sample accurately. This is even true for some EQ plugins in massive sessions.
I still write automation changes with at least a second of "handle" before each clip to avoid odd pops and ramps.

Frank.
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  #3  
Old 08-11-2022, 07:17 AM
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unkJE unkJE is offline
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Default Re: When was sample accurate automation introduced?

Pro Tools 11
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...ost-users.html
4.
Sample accurate Automation - For post users this is so helpful. Before I could never trust Pro Tools to manage automation changes at exactly the right point, but now that even automation point is time stamped just like the audio files we can be confident that it will do the right thing at the right time.



However, in Pro Tools 12.5.1
https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...-Release-Notes
Bug Fixes
• Fixed an unexpected volume change that intermittently occurred when using non-HDX playback engines and starting playback from directly on top of a mute automation event



To be sure to be sure – in Pro Tools 12.5.2
https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...-Release-Notes
Bug Fixes
HDX
• Fixed an intermittent issue affecting HDX systems which would cause a crackling sound after making changes to the HDX mixer
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Last edited by unkJE; 08-11-2022 at 07:52 AM. Reason: To be sure to be sure
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Old 08-11-2022, 08:23 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: When was sample accurate automation introduced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkJE View Post
Pro Tools 11
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...ost-users.html
4.
Sample accurate Automation - For post users this is so helpful. Before I could never trust Pro Tools to manage automation changes at exactly the right point, but now that even automation point is time stamped just like the audio files we can be confident that it will do the right thing at the right time.



However, in Pro Tools 12.5.1
https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...-Release-Notes
Bug Fixes
• Fixed an unexpected volume change that intermittently occurred when using non-HDX playback engines and starting playback from directly on top of a mute automation event



To be sure to be sure – in Pro Tools 12.5.2
https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...-Release-Notes
Bug Fixes
HDX
• Fixed an intermittent issue affecting HDX systems which would cause a crackling sound after making changes to the HDX mixer
Hm, the automation itself might be sample accurate but some plugins themselves have reaction times. I can hear this in every large post-session I work in in recent PT versions (and every one before). I still avoid abrupt automation changes on clip boundaries just like before PT11. It depends on session size, CPU speed etc.
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2022, 04:59 PM
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unkJE unkJE is offline
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Default Re: When was sample accurate automation introduced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonopolis View Post
...audible pops ... I'm confronted with this issue again.
“Even-more-sure” protection from pops/clicks/noise-blasts:
If you have a VST host like BlueCat Audio’s PatchWork, insert the free “Ice9” VST on the Master Track
https://freevstplugins.net/cerberus-...ice9-automute/

“Ice9 Automute’s soft-muting function will begin to attenuate the gain before a single sample over the threshold has passed. Instantaneous radical attenuation will occur if the threshold is exceeded by a severe and potentially dangerous amount.
This update features an increased threshold range for matching levels commonly used with digital/analog hybrid signal chains. It also fixes an important functional issue for Windows users, and introduces internal improvements for Mac users.
Changes in Ice9 Automute v1.1
Increased threshold range to -12dB, adjustable in 1dB increments.
Windows: auto reset was not working on some systems. Fixed.
OS X: Recompiled with Apple LLVM C++ compiler (brings stability and performance improvements).”


Downloads - scroll down to orange/red type:
Ice9_1.1.0_Windows ( 11.6 MB )
Ice9_1.1.1_OSX_Installer ( 13.2 MB )
Close the ensuing pop-up and the download begins
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  #6  
Old 08-12-2022, 12:03 PM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
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Default Re: When was sample accurate automation introduced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonopolis View Post
...automation jumps on the edge of clips could no longer introduce audible pops....

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this has little to do with the "sample accuracy" of automation. *Any* instantaneous level change during program will cause a pop - this is physics, not pro tools - it will be worse with material with significant low end, but really, instantaneous level changes should be avoided. That said, there is a "steep breakpoint smoothing time" preference in the "mixing" tab that should address such issues - not sure when it was added but it was perhaps 2 or 3 versions ago.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2022, 05:55 AM
Sonopolis Sonopolis is offline
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Default Re: When was sample accurate automation introduced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Breen View Post
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this has little to do with the "sample accuracy" of automation. *Any* instantaneous level change during program will cause a pop - this is physics, not pro tools - it will be worse with material with significant low end, but really, instantaneous level changes should be avoided. That said, there is a "steep breakpoint smoothing time" preference in the "mixing" tab that should address such issues - not sure when it was added but it was perhaps 2 or 3 versions ago.
Yes, sorry you misunderstood. I meant fader level automation jumps when no program material is present of cause. Unless it's not accurate, so there is program material playing.
Concerning the preference, I was working on a PT version that didn't have this yet.

Quote:
I don't think it has ever been 100% sample accurate except when doing offline bounces. (I think it was introduced when offline bounce came to PT)
If at all I'd say only volume and pan but clearly not for plugins.
Altiverb for example sometimes need several seconds to load a huge IR so if you place a setting change on a scene edge it won't recall sample accurately. This is even true for some EQ plugins in massive sessions.
I still write automation changes with at least a second of "handle" before each clip to avoid odd pops and ramps.
Yes, Frank, you're right. I even filed a ticket last year because I had major issues with some plug-ins. But I haven't had issues with volume automation for a long time now until I was working on that session that was originally created with PT 2018.
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