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  #1  
Old 04-07-2005, 04:58 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

Hello,

I have come to realize that Autotune TDM works very poorly. It barely tracks the vocal in 'auto-mode'. As soon as you switch to RTAS version of plugin, tracking behaves as normal. Same as for graphic mode. TDM version jumps octaves, has poor tracking, and randomly adds clicks and pops. RTAS works much better.

Anyone know why or experiencing the same thing?

Also, I am running v4.1.5 and am scared to upgrade to the more current one cuz it seems that each update to v4 is more buggy than the next. Anybody have anything good to say about the most current version?

thanks
MT
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  #2  
Old 04-07-2005, 07:48 PM
Loudnoize Ent. Loudnoize Ent. is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

MT,

Same thing on this end. Wish I had an answer. Autotune TDM worked very poorly on my end having to use "Graphic" mode in certain instances and process them to track due to poor tracking. I believe the version we were running was 4.2.3.

Anyone else?
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2005, 08:16 PM
Captain Crunch Captain Crunch is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

AT RTAS tracks better than TDM, and its been that way for years! I've never heard a good reason why.
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  #4  
Old 04-07-2005, 09:20 PM
Scott Goldberg Scott Goldberg is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

My experience has always been that Autotune AS/Graphic mode works more accurately and naturally. It does a GREAT job most of the time. You can actually start with whatever they call it, I think it's called "quicktune." At any rate, it's the icon at the bottom middle left of the plug-ins' screen when you are in graphic mode. Once you choose that (if the pitch was close in the first place) then go further by cleaning up the automatically placed correction lines a bit more. They tend to be written with attacks than the real desired notes. With some practice, that always works better for me than than ANY automatic mode you could ever try.

Then, there are some pitches, by nature, that just don't tune well, and they really need to be "partially" tuned. Discretion and the art of using Autotune are really what makes it a great tool. It''s kind of like music, in that much of the time, "less is more" thus sparseness of use, coupled with the artistic use of it, can make AT hardly noticed when a good "tuner" is using it.

Also, some pitches , I found, are better tuned with Serrato "Pitch"2.2, especially if they are more that a step away from intended note. I've used Speed too and it can work OK as well but Serrato kicks butt. I woud not doubt if there are a couple of other pitch altering plug-ins that do well now too.

With pitch correction, I tend to think of it this way...How can anything like Autotune (a very affordable $400 plug-in) track a melody intuitively enough to not only capture the proper notes, slurs, inflections, timbres, vibratos, and more, all in an automatic modenearly perfectly? It does a pretty fantastic job of doing that right now anyway. If one; however, wants his or her vocals or instrument to have all the right pitches, durations, and relative phrasing, etc. WITHOUT sounding like there are artifacts or funky vibratos within the tuned portions...they will see that it takes more than a mouse click sometimes to get all of the nuances they desire, even though this wonderful technology based society has given us something as incredible as Autotune at our disposal.

Sorry for the long winded blah blah balh, I've just had a bunch of ecperience with this tool, and my associate primarily does award winning vocal A Capella work and he uses Autotune as one of his main tools very well.
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  #5  
Old 04-07-2005, 10:16 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

Quote:
My experience has always been that Autotune AS/Graphic mode works more accurately and naturally. It does a GREAT job most of the time. You can actually start with whatever they call it, I think it's called "quicktune." At any rate, it's the icon at the bottom middle left of the plug-ins' screen when you are in graphic mode. Once you choose that (if the pitch was close in the first place) then go further by cleaning up the automatically placed correction lines a bit more. They tend to be written with attacks than the real desired notes. With some practice, that always works better for me than than ANY automatic mode you could ever try.

Then, there are some pitches, by nature, that just don't tune well, and they really need to be "partially" tuned. Discretion and the art of using Autotune are really what makes it a great tool. It''s kind of like music, in that much of the time, "less is more" thus sparseness of use, coupled with the artistic use of it, can make AT hardly noticed when a good "tuner" is using it.

Also, some pitches , I found, are better tuned with Serrato "Pitch"2.2, especially if they are more that a step away from intended note. I've used Speed too and it can work OK as well but Serrato kicks butt. I woud not doubt if there are a couple of other pitch altering plug-ins that do well now too.

With pitch correction, I tend to think of it this way...How can anything like Autotune (a very affordable $400 plug-in) track a melody intuitively enough to not only capture the proper notes, slurs, inflections, timbres, vibratos, and more, all in an automatic modenearly perfectly? It does a pretty fantastic job of doing that right now anyway. If one; however, wants his or her vocals or instrument to have all the right pitches, durations, and relative phrasing, etc. WITHOUT sounding like there are artifacts or funky vibratos within the tuned portions...they will see that it takes more than a mouse click sometimes to get all of the nuances they desire, even though this wonderful technology based society has given us something as incredible as Autotune at our disposal.

Sorry for the long winded blah blah balh, I've just had a bunch of ecperience with this tool, and my associate primarily does award winning vocal A Capella work and he uses Autotune as one of his main tools very well.
Thanks for the "longwinded blah blah" but its not a 'how-to' post. Im very well versed in the ways of Autotune and various other ptich apps. Quite an expert if i do say so myself.
This is merely about how TDM version of the plug doesnt work as it should, but RTAS does.

P.S. Im getting kernel panics and Unexpected Quits when tweaking Autotune of ANY kind (TDM/RTAS). What is up with it?

MT
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  #6  
Old 04-08-2005, 07:21 AM
wyman wyman is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

i've noticed the same thing. especially in graphical mode, where i'll track the pitch of a selection, make adjustments, playback, and get WAY more artifacts than i should. track again, and the pitch graph is shifted in one direction or another by a couple of milliseconds, even though my selection has not changed.

also get the octave jumps.

rtas works fine.
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  #7  
Old 04-08-2005, 07:35 AM
John Pisciotta John Pisciotta is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

Yep same deal here, They really should tighten up Auto Tune, or at least get on the same page with DIGI. For the money it shold intergrate a bit better.
John
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  #8  
Old 04-08-2005, 08:21 AM
pmh3r pmh3r is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

Yeah...same here....

TDM has never worked correctly in anything other than automatic mode which most of us know is not quite as transparent as using graphical mode. The interesting part is that Antares is well aware of the problems with the TDM version not working correctly. I've spoken to tech support over there and while they are responsive and kind, updates that remedy problems are few and far between. When I mentioned that TDM Graphical mode doesnt work I was told "it's been like that for some time. I don't know where it is on the prioirty list for our developers." The workaround I was told was to use Audiosuite AT for graphical mode... Audiosuite is surely not the easiest way to tune vocal parts...there is a major lag between previewing the region you are working on and the scroll in the graphical window. Not to mention having to using preview to capture the region in the first place.

If 50% of the featureset in the TDM AT is unuseable, why in the heck would you make it and then really be concerned about a fix????

Unacceptable...

pmh3r
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  #9  
Old 04-08-2005, 12:47 PM
McMasters McMasters is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

Yes, I noticed it after the last upgrade. Tracking sucked but the undo's were cool. Actually contimplated reverting back to Ver3.x

I didn't notice the RTAS thing. I guess I just always thought that TDM is just better.

I have been having a bitch of a time trying to tune in graphical. Setting the tracking knob up real high almost in the 70's, switch to soprano when the singer clearly isn't or setting it instrument for a grungy vocal preformance.

I will try the RTAS. I hope it tracks significantly better. I really think Antares messed up this version.

Can someone remind me why I bought this in TDM version????
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  #10  
Old 04-08-2005, 01:17 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Re: AutoTune TDM not working well, but RTAS is ok?

Quote:


I will try the RTAS. I hope it tracks significantly better. I really think Antares messed up this version.


It definitely does. I just tried this: Duplicate a vocal track. Put TDM AT on one, RTAS AT on the other, both in Auto-Mode at "fast" tracking and "choosy" correction. Pull up both plugin windows side by side and playback. You can SEE that the RTAS version tracking and correcting way more than the TDM version.. I barely even see the correction meter moving with TDM. Actually, it moves alot one second, then acts as if its in bypass the next..

Guess Im just using RTAS from now on. Im also gonna send this thread link to Antares.

MT
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