APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

[limgim]

Thank you Darryl for that straightforward response and I totally agree with you especially when it comes to Avid's "approved systems". I don't think I have ever run on an approved system myself ever since I started working with Pro Tools. I never implied that Avid's document was more informed than people posting in this thread, quite the opposite actually but as you mention yourself, some of the info posted by Avid online is very important and some is ... not. It's not always easy to figure out which is which and seeing the document on formatting drives was "updated" in september 2020, I now understand why you've given up asking them to fix it.
Thanks again for clearing that up.
One last thing, are you suggesting with modern macs and PCIe/NVMe SSDs that system, audio sessions and sample/VI libs could all reside on the same APFS drive ?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by limgim

One last thing, are you suggesting with modern macs and PCIe/NVMe SSDs that system, audio sessions and sample/VI libs could all reside on the same APFS drive ?

I think people should think about that as the default setup. And should try to purchase (non-internally expandable) Macs with a large enough intern SSDs to hold their sample libraries and sessions if possible. But that obviously won’t work for everybody. I know for me with MacBook Pros I love not having to have external drives connected, easier to move around, more reliable etc. I keep seeing folks here who have stuck a slow external *HDD* session drive on a Mac with internal PCIe/NVNe SSD because they think they need to because Avid says so... the performance, and likely reliability hit they are taking is just sad.

If you need an external drive on a modern Mac then a modern NVMe/PCIe SSD connected over Thunderbolt 3 will give you performance about the same as the internal SSDs. That market is still not quite sorted out with drives like the Samsung X5 overpriced, packaging your own M.2 SSD in a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure a better cost but maybe bit fiddley option, and high-end options for multiple M.2 drives in PCIe expansion chassis are there but complicated by PCIe card options and running into Thunderbolt 3 performance limits, and you kinda need to know what you are doing with card and/or RAID choices. I hope with increasing use of Thunderbolt 3 as an optional part of USB 4 we will see better external PCIe/SSD storage options. And of course many PC, current Mac Pro and classic Cheesegrater users have great options for M.2 direct (PC) and M.2 on adapter cards in internal PCIe slots... in those cases I sure would be more tempted to avoid the Apple tax on large boot SSDs and spend it on third party M.2 drives.

HDD remain good options for backups, especially archival type backups.

[limgim]

Great, this is everything I was hoping to read when it comes to setting up my Pro Tools rig with APFS and PCIe/NVMe SSDs. This is gonna make things much simpler. Now I need to figure out the best option for a portable TB3 NVMe SSD with my audio sessions to go back and forth between studio with cMP 5,1 (still no flashed Titan Ridge PCIe card installed) and my home 2020 iMac.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

HDD remain good options for backups, especially archival type backups.

Yes, and also good enough for most sessions if sample drives are SSD

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by limgim

Great, this is everything I was hoping to read when it comes to setting up my Pro Tools rig with APFS and PCIe/NVMe SSDs. This is gonna make things much simpler. Now I need to figure out the best option for a portable TB3 NVMe SSD with my audio sessions to go back and forth between studio with cMP 5,1 (still no flashed Titan Ridge PCIe card installed) and my home 2020 iMac.

Can't do true Thunderbolt in a cheesegrater without jumping through hoops. And even then it's iffy.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Can't do true Thunderbolt in a cheesegrater without jumping through hoops. And even then it's iffy.

Yep. I'm not sure I'd try to bother with TB3 on the Cheesegrater, not just for disk interchange. What I would work on are great PCIe/NVMe internal SSD options and then for external SSD for say session transfer... using a USB 3.1 Gen 2 drive like a Samsung T7 (technically NVMe over USB) and USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCIe card in the Cheesegrater.. if you have enough PCIe slots. Or even (just for moving sessions a nice USB stick like a Sandisk Extreme Pro.. darn handy, I just brought another one).

Lots of past discussion on NVMe drives in classic Cheesegraters on DUC if you have not seen that yet.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Yes, and also good enough for most sessions if sample drives are SSD

Good enough is not always good enough.

[limgim]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Can't do true Thunderbolt in a cheesegrater without jumping through hoops. And even then it's iffy.

I've always pushed back on trying to get TB3 inside a cMP for those exact reasons. Up until now, I was satisfied going from studio to home rig with my Oyen Digital MiniPro eSata SSD enclosure connected to PCIe card (internal mSATA SSD for startup + external eSATA connector) on cMP and Sonnet eSATA to TB1 converter on iMac. That worked really well for a long time. Now that I have very fast internal PCIe/NVMe SSD and TB3 at home and still need a portable sessions drive, I'm not sure how to connect a TB3 SSD to cMP without taking the Titan Ridge route.

[limgim]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Yep. I'm not sure I'd try to bother with TB3 on the Cheesegrater, not just for disk interchange. What I would work on are great PCIe/NVMe internal SSD options and then for external SSD for say session transfer... using a USB 3.1 Gen 2 drive like a Samsung T7 (technically NVMe over USB) and USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCIe card in the Cheesegrater.. if you have enough PCIe slots. Or even (just for moving sessions a nice USB stick like a Sandisk Extreme Pro.. darn handy, I just brought another one).

Lots of past discussion on NVMe drives in classic Cheesegraters on DUC if you have not seen that yet.

I only have one PCIe slot to work around those options and I would need a card that allows me to have one startup/system SSD and one external connection for sessions drive, the way I have it setup today, with PCIe SATA card. I actually cut out the space in the metal bracket to connect eSATA cable to the second SATA connector on the card.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by limgim

I've always pushed back on trying to get TB3 inside a cMP for those exact reasons. Up until now, I was satisfied going from studio to home rig with my Oyen Digital MiniPro eSata SSD enclosure connected to PCIe card (internal mSATA SSD for startup + external eSATA connector) on cMP and Sonnet eSATA to TB1 converter on iMac. That worked really well for a long time. Now that I have very fast internal PCIe/NVMe SSD and TB3 at home and still need a portable sessions drive, I'm not sure how to connect a TB3 SSD to cMP without taking the Titan Ridge route.

Don't you get it - Thunderbolt is not really possible in a cheesegrater Mac Pro. The Titan Ridge is Windows only and not supported on a Mac. You're just asking for trouble with something that isn't supported by either Apple or PT. Better to stay with what you've got that has worked in the past. Take reliability over speed - after all it's just for transferring stuff from one place to another. It's not like it's a work drive.