Controlling monitor level from keyboard

[dominicperry]

Originally Posted by digiot

Don't forget Guitar and Bass amp Plug-ins! I think Avid did a pretty good job by adding DSP Plug-ins to the Carbon software bundle to cover most of those needs (MCDSP,PluginAlliance)
And as far as only mixing in native, I do a lot of overdubs and punch-ins after starting mixes so you still need DSP-Plugins. Something to think about when starting to use plug-ins to mix.

Yes, agreed, good point on the Guitar and Bass stuff.

Yes, it's good to have the whole tranche of plugs on a channel go from Native to DSP when you need to overdub, but I'm in the habit of checking per-plug latency anyway from the days of using UAD Apollo, so I tend to check the stuff loaded into Carbon and avoid high-lantency plugs where I can. There are too many Native-only options which can't/don't run in DSP to avoid Native altogether.

YMMV etc.

Dominic

[dominicperry]

Originally Posted by Megalobass

The SPLs improve things quite a bit and correct the main default of the Carbon, which is the high impedance of the outputs.

Output impedance of the Carbon main outs is 100 Ohms balanced. Is that high?
My RME ADI-2 Pro fs has an output impedance of 200 Ohms balanced.
RME Babyface Pro fs - output impedance of 300 Ohms balanced.
SPL MTC Mk2 - 75 Ohms (XLR - doesn't specify balanced or unbalanced).

What kind of figures are you expecting?

Dominic

[Megalobass]

Originally Posted by dominicperry

Output impedance of the Carbon main outs is 100 Ohms balanced. Is that high?
My RME ADI-2 Pro fs has an output impedance of 200 Ohms balanced.
RME Babyface Pro fs - output impedance of 300 Ohms balanced.

What kind of figures are you expecting?

Dominic

Actually it depends on the input impedance of your monitors.

But it is commonly accepted that the lowest possible output impedance gives the best possible relationship with the monitors.

And most high-end interfaces and converters offer lower output impedance:
Apogee Ensemble Thunderbolt: 90 ohms
SPL MTC Mk2 and MC16: 75 ohms
Apogee Symphony I/O: 50 ohms
Apogee Symphony I/O 2x6 SE: 25 ohms
etc...

You can simply do the test with your RME ADI-2 Pro: use the headphone output, who is 0,2 ohms if I correctly remember, instead of the line output. Especially if your monitors have an input impedance of 10k ohms as it is often the case.

[QuacksMeUp]

DOMINIC: found your thread from late 2021 on this topic. My rep at Sweetwater was able to map things for me using ADAT into the Audient iD14. But we couldn't get S/PDIF work.

I can now monitor Carbon and audio from the iMac thru the iD14 - and control the volume, It is - as you said - still somewhat of a "faff" and not as seamless as with the Apogee. I'm going to try the TC volume knob next.

I am noticing, however quite a few digital pops (signal overdrive?) with Carbon that I didn't have with the Apogee. Levels seem pretty hot. Next on my list to investigate. I see some discussion of that below. Monitors are Yamaha HS-8's... and again, they played fine with the Apogee. Thanks for all your "input".

MEGALOBASS: I'm wondering myself if Avid's signal is a bit overdriven.

Am I understanding correctly that I will only get the benefit of DSP in tracking mode - and only with DSP plug-ins? My sales rep said it would also benefit me in mixing.

[dominicperry]

Originally Posted by QuacksMeUp

DOMINIC: found your thread from late 2021 on this topic. My rep at Sweetwater was able to map things for me using ADAT into the Audient iD14. But we couldn't get S/PDIF work.

I don't know how to set up the iD14, but you must change the Carbon setting in Pro Tools so that the ADAT 1 (or 2, whichever you are using) is S/PDIF not ADAT. Inside PT - Setup -> Hardware -> Optical I/O tab - change optical output format to S/PDIF.

I can now monitor Carbon and audio from the iMac thru the iD14 - and control the volume, It is - as you said - still somewhat of a "faff" and not as seamless as with the Apogee. I'm going to try the TC volume knob next.

The TC volume knob is not really on the level of the Carbon, but you may not hear any signal degradation. Try it and see!

I am noticing, however quite a few digital pops (signal overdrive?) with Carbon that I didn't have with the Apogee. Levels seem pretty hot. Next on my list to investigate. I see some discussion of that below. Monitors are Yamaha HS-8's... and again, they played fine with the Apogee. Thanks for all your "input".

Carbon has perfectly normal "professional" level signal input and output. There's loads of headroom on both inputs and outputs. Any clicking you hear is either buffer settings, clocking or some other problem, it's not an inherent Carbon issue.
"Overdrive" is not the same as popping and could be mismatched levels or any number of other things.

MEGALOBASS: I'm wondering myself if Avid's signal is a bit overdriven.

I'll let MEGALOBASS answer for themselves, but there is nothing wrong with the signal level of the Carbon. There's also nothing wrong with the output impedance of the Carbon, but I'll argue about that in another post....

Am I understanding correctly that I will only get the benefit of DSP in tracking mode - and only with DSP plug-ins? My sales rep said it would also benefit me in mixing.

Sounds like you are being slightly misled by the sales rep.
The Carbon has 8 HDX DSP chips - that's less than half of a "real" HDX card (which has 18). So yes, in theory you can use the DSP on the Carbon to run some or all of your plugin processing. But that isn't how it was intended to work. The Carbon takes advantage of Avid's hybrid engine design - in fact it was this product that brought the hybrid engine to market. The idea is that you use the massive amounts of power in a modern computer CPU for mixing and have enough DSP locally on the interface to always be able to track/overdub at low latency with plugins. You will never be caught out, however big you make the buffers in PT while mixing, however close you are getting to your CPU limit - you can always get a last-minute vocal overdub or track with super-low latency by using the DSP in the Carbon for tracking/overdubbing.

Dominic

[Megalobass]

Originally Posted by QuacksMeUp

MEGALOBASS: I'm wondering myself if Avid's signal is a bit overdriven.

I did not notice anything in particular.

As I am also an Apogee user, I tried to find the output quality I usually get with the Ensemble or Symphony I/O. Using the SPL MC16 monitor controller in conjunction with Carbon, I am very close, and the spatialization of the mix becomes even better with a 32-bit worflow.

[QuacksMeUp]

The TC Electronic Level Pilot X just arrived and will be putting that thru the paces today.

I'm encouraged that you, also as a former Apogee user, are finding things to your liking. I have also solved some issues that are enabling me to keep the rest of my hair. I had to reinstall PT and Eucon last night and that seemed to clear up a lot of problems.

Ironically, I've also discovered that with my workflow, I don't want my native plug-ins disabled when I'm tracking. I need those active. So, I need to find the setting to switch-OFF Carbon's automatic disabling of native plug-ins.

Having to reach for the front panel of the Carbon unit every time I need to mute the monitors or change the volume is still my biggest gripe... and makes me wonder if I should just go back to the Apogee where it all worked right from my keyboard.

Will give this volume knob and try and hope it helps.

[QuacksMeUp]

Hooked up the TC Electronic Level Pilot X ($69) between Carbon monitors out and my monitors. Now I have a glorified big volume knob on my desk and don't have to reach over to the front of Carbon to change volume.

BUT - I still have to reach over to mute the monitors. If the TC had a clickable mute function (a la Audient's id14), it would be a more a complete solution for my needs. It's not bad; just still falls short of what I need.

[EGS]

For monitor controller, I'm using Audient NERO - sounds perfect!

[QuacksMeUp]

I had just been looking at the Nero, but came across a thread on gearspace where there were repeated accounts of the unit suddenly going haywire and frying everything from headphones to genelac speakers. The suspicion was something to do with the op amp and voltage on the rails... or something like that.

I may give it another look. I know what the DIM button does... but the CUT button - does that MUTE the monitors (cut the monitors)?