50% off waves TDM -- bad sign??

[tom_lowe]

TDM itself is an incredibly old technology, the current crop of Pro Tools HD cards use very old processors.

I see your point that you should value them for what they are able to do, if it was analogue or even digital standalone hardware, that argument would make more sense. The problem with Pro Tools HD cards is that they are computer equipment, not audio equipment.

Unfortunately, computer equipment is outdated every 18 months on average, meaning that the attitude of seeing Pro Tools cards as something other than mere computer hardware is short sighted.

The fact that Avid is able to charge so much for these still is frankly ridiculous. These cards had their place when running multiple tracks and plug-ins was unthinkable on a P3 or Mac G4, however, the host computers have moved on, the cards haven't. In this period when native processing was quite limited, they certainly had a place. However, native processing has now caught up and surpassed TDM, meaning these cards have little merit.

I know a lot of people have invested a lot of money in TDM-based systems, but unfortunately that doesn't mean the technology isn't outdated and unneccesary. The only reason they are necessary is because Pro Tools native is still artificially limited, albeit less than it was a year ago. A 12-core Mac Pro with properly coded software to take full advantage of all cores would surpass a Pro Tools HD6 or more rig with ease. Unfortunately, because Avid can make so much money from 10 year old hardware, they have little to gain from properly updating Pro Tools to a modern code-base.

The sad part is, Pro Tools HD1 (or 2 or 3) on a Mac G4 will, in theory perform exactly the same as an HD1 (or 2 or 3) on a 12-core Mac Pro in terms of track count and TDM processing. The only gain will be in the number of RTAS plug-ins that can be run. If that isn't artificial limitation, then I'm not sure what is.

Maybe Avid will release a Thunderbolt version of TDM, but frankly, I'd not want to invest £2000+ in something I can't upgrade the hardware on in 2 years time when Macs and PCs will have roughly doubled (or trippled) in power in the same period.

That said, I can fully understand wanting to get the most from your Mac or PC without having to upgrade, I just don't think TDM is the best way to go. Why not something like Apple's Logic Node, where any networked Macs with Logic can off-load processing tasks to another machine. Imagine a studio with a few Pro Tools rooms, all being able to use resources on other networked machines when they weren't being used, or wanting to upgrade the processing of a Mac and just having to buy a £600 Mac mini. That to me would make more sense.

[kd_special]

Originally Posted by Postman

My intended point is this. Whatever Waves is doing to drum up more sales, whatever other plugins have been developed without a TDM counterpart, whatever cloud formations drift overhead, do not signal the demise of TDM. The current implementation of TDM is long in the tooth but still very worthwhile and considering the dropping cost of bulking up an existing system, I see no reason not to if I can use the added power. I have an opinion that tdm will still be valuable to me even when a "new tdm comes along, and I think one will. If you are 20 years old, for example, it is easy to see something that is 10 years old as being hopelessly archaic and pathetic. If you look at only the merits of that something, excluding assumptions, you may have a different opinion.

Well Put

TDM isn't going anywhere any time fast Waves sells TDM plugs at 50% like twice a year.

kd

[NewdestinyX]

Originally Posted by kd_special

Well Put

TDM isn't going anywhere any time fast Waves sells TDM plugs at 50% like twice a year.

kd

Though I agree that TDM technology is a dinosaur and is going to be replaced with something eventually - I also know that Avid will still offer a 'hi end' product and a semi pro line. That's not likely to change. AND don't read anything into this 50% deal on TDM - they do it twice a year for the last 3-4 years. You have to be a member of NARAS (Grammy society) to take advantage of the deal - at least you've had to for the last 3 years.

[SDDP]

Why not just get what you need and have to have to keep your work flow going and if there's something coming out that will help generate more business then plan on getting that too. I've been using this approach when I opened up my own Studio in 2000 and this formula works really well!

Using a n 8core, would a 12 core work better, of coarse, would it make ALL the difference and bring in more business compared to what I have now, no.


We always want and would like to have more Cores, faster GHz, more ram/HD. But financially only need to spend the extra $$ if you need it to stay in business.

[Postman]

SDDP, those are wise words. My rule of thumb for a small business, like most of us are, is easy to remember, easy to predict, conservative, and no fail.

"If it pays for itself within a year its okay."

The best purchases I have ever made have met this easy rule. Any business school graduate will make fun of it, as it is TOO conservative, but that is why it is "no fail".

Tom does not think tdm is a wise purchase now. Fair enough. I disagree because tdm helps me satisfy my clients this year, as it has in past years. I've increased my tdm system this year because it will save me time, and thus will pay for itself by allowing me to spend my time more effectively. Also, it might, just maybe, have a small trade in value if/when the "new tdm" comes along. Honestly I don't know if Avid will allow a trade up value the way Digidesign did (if they do I'll be much more likely to trade up right away!), but I don't see how I can loose either way. Avid will not stop supporting tdm this year.

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by SDDP

Why not just get what you need and have to have to keep your work flow going and if there's something coming out that will help generate more business then plan on getting that too. I've been using this approach when I opened up my own Studio in 2000 and this formula works really well!

Using a n 8core, would a 12 core work better, of coarse, would it make ALL the difference and bring in more business compared to what I have now, no.


We always want and would like to have more Cores, faster GHz, more ram/HD. But financially only need to spend the extra $$ if you need it to stay in business.

Finally some frickin' common sense - everywhere has been rife with TDM vs RTAS crap the last week with a lot of posters getting tangled in tech...