Seeking advice

[Richard Fairbanks]

I'm helping a friend record what seems to be a simple job, but I'm not comfortable with my options for picking up the sound. I could really use advice from someone who does this kind of thing more often than I do. Naturally I thought to ask here.

It is a multi-camera shoot. One person on camera. No audience. The talent is a classical piano player who, from time to time, talks as she plays. Sometimes she plays moderately loudly as she talks (she is good, but not exceptionally powerful). Sometimes while she talks she gets up from the piano and walks around. The director, my friend, is quite experienced and is absolutely determined that NO microphones shall be visible and insists that a boom mic cannot be used because it will interfere with the wide cutaways.

How can we mic her? The problem is her, not the piano. The lid will be full stick (open). Hair mic over the forehead? Body mic (assuming wardrobe allows)? Fixed invisible mic above the keyboard? All of them? Aren't all of those going to pick up the piano as much or more than her?

I tend to get anxious when I haven't got all the variables covered and I'm anxious now! Any thoughts will be most appreciated.

[sleadley]

Dear Richard,
I would suggest that a lavalier radio mic placed like an interviewee. They are small and innocuous now and I would suggest a nice soft cotton dress or shirt. This will work fine. It will not be a big deal if you see the mic and it will give freedom to move around.
Hope this helps
Simon L.

[lightning ad]

i recently tried out a DPA 4060 mic - sounded fantastic, and i could not believe the size of it. Like a grain of rice at the end of a thin wire. I could hardly see it when i was holding it, let alone when it was hidden amongst clothing.

[Richard Fairbanks]

It will not be a big deal if you see the mic...

Hi Simone! Unfortunately, my friend does not feel the same way, although I understand what you mean because the mics are small. I've got a couple of MKE-2s in the closet, I haven't done this sort of thing in a while and there are probably better choices now. Yes, radio is best and is being planned for.

There has been a resistance to the thought of a body mic since I was asked to help, and I'm trying to see if there is another way. I mentioned a hair mic to them at one point, more of a passing thought (some stage productions use them when costumes allow), and that has suddently become the director's preferred placement because it gives complete freedom of wardrobe selection. A hair mic also has a more consistent sound when the performer moves her head. But this all assumes it can be placed far enough forward to "see" her mouth. And, like a body mic, I'm worried whether it will pick her up well enough to be worthwhile when she is seated at the piano. As a post mixer I am well aware of the sound and clothing problems with "lapel" or "chest" placements. I don't have enough experience on set to know what works best.

Re: grain of sand mics. Lightening, I'll check into the DPA. Was it noisy? I mean, sometimes the smaller microphones have lower S/N ratios, i.e. hiss. What you say is encouraging.

[Doug the Brit]

It's pretty common to hide a 'lav' mic under clothing. It's important to avoid clothes rustle and cable noise. It's a long time since I've had to do this but the Tram mic was the favorite when I was on the road. Toupe tape is your friend in this endevour!

I'd reccomend searching the RAMPS newsgroup, or throwing the question out on it. many of the folks on that group do this day in, day out.

rec.arts.movies.production.sound

Doug

[audiogeek1]

I recently did something like this. It was shot on a sound stage and no mics could be visable. So I hung a few spot mics from the rafters, these were schoeps hypercardioid mics. Put a Lav under the clothing and also used a DPA hair mic. The Post process was hard switching between mics but came out better than I thought it would. Definitely the hardest thing I have had to do to date.

Hope this helps and good luck

Mike

[Branko]

Richard,
I would recommend you Sanken COS-11. Place it under the clothes, on chest, centered, some 15-20 cm under the chin. Make a small cable loop before leading it to the transmitter, it will reduce the cable noise. Sanken is a very small mike, sounding very natural, and has a good omni characteristics. I mix a lot of things recorded with various lav mics and to my opinion, Sanken is one of the best sounding available. Another useful thing for you would be a Rycote "Under Cover" self-adhesive patch, which you can stick to artists clothes from inside. It is absolutely invisible when applied carefully, and it will help to avoid picking up a lot of noise, including wind (movement, breathing etc.)
I'd avoid Sennheiser's MKE2, too harsh....
hope this helps
Branko

[Richard Fairbanks]

Thank you Simon, Adam, Doug, Mike, and Branko. First, I'd like to point out that everyone in this thread has used his actual name! How cool it that?

I sincerely appreciate any thoughts about the type of microphone best to use. You all know what works much better than I. Mic selection and placement is everything. And Branko, I know what you mean about MKE-2. It has a strange upper midrange boost or ring that is not pleasant. I am glad to know there are now better choices.

There is another factor I am troubled by. I have a feeling that any body mic placement is going to dominate the mix. I imagine being able to find a great piano sound, wide, classical ambience in the hall, until her mic is added in. At which point the soundfield will collapse to center because her body mic will need so much more gain than the others. Right? Any ideas how to lessen the danger? If there were only a way to put a stereo lav on her!

[Chief Technician]

the Tram mic was the favorite when I was on the road.

We have a Tram TR-50. I believe Shure makes some head mics (Diversity) that are about half the size of your smallest fingernail. I used them years ago for a musical theater production. The wire was laced up into the hair and then around towards the front, with the transmitter hidden at the back. The receiver was rackmountable, and at the time (2000), it was some new-fangled design that was allegedly really good at rejecting other RF (I certainly didn't hear any).

FWIW.

-Jonathan

[Craig F]

if you have the extra track you might want to try a long shot gun (mkh816) won't be very usable but as an ADR guide backup track.