Crossfade volume dip in PT 12 - 12.6.1

[tj7]

I'm well aware of the cross fade prefs, but am finding that since upgrading to T 12, no matter what setting, crossfades *always* create an obvious (visually on the waveform and audibly) dip in the middle. NO pref setting fixes it properly.

Never used to be a prob in PT 10. I keep having to do compensatory volume automation changes at crossfades.

Anyone else encountered this, and if so, any solutions aside from doing extra work to compensate for the error?

Two exact same volume clips should not *always* dip in volume at the centre of a crossfade. The whole point is to create a smooth, inaudible transition. This is impossible without compensating as described above in PT 12 (6.1)...

[Audiofarm]

I think you're on to something here. Never thought of it as a bug. You may be right. It was better in PT 10.

[Postman]

Try "equal power" type of crossfades, they will nearly always keep a more even level. That's what they were designed for and I use them in post almost exclusively for the same reason. I don't think it is a bug.

[Audiofarm]

I Have equal power as default shape. Always had. But has it changed from PT10? Is there more of a dip now with the regular shape? Will test it asap.

[Postman]

I spent a week editing and mixing on 12.6.1 and did not notice any difference. Equal power seemed to work as it should and I can say with certainty that straight lines work the way they always have. I was on Win7 with 12.6.1. My Mac is still 12.6.0, which is behaving the way it should too.

I have 10.3 and 12.6 both running on my Mac, I'll check for differences.

Just had a thought, are you crossfading between clips on the same track or clips on different tracks?

[lesbrunn]

Originally Posted by tj7

I'm well aware of the cross fade prefs, but am finding that since upgrading to T 12, no matter what setting, crossfades *always* create an obvious (visually on the waveform and audibly) dip in the middle. NO pref setting fixes it properly.

Never used to be a prob in PT 10. I keep having to do compensatory volume automation changes at crossfades.

Anyone else encountered this, and if so, any solutions aside from doing extra work to compensate for the error?

Two exact same volume clips should not *always* dip in volume at the centre of a crossfade. The whole point is to create a smooth, inaudible transition. This is impossible without compensating as described above in PT 12 (6.1)...

I've noticed this and always compensated with clip gain, but I never looked at it as a major issue. We've become so used to minor bugs that we just use PT without complaining! You're perfectly right! It wasn't like that before, and shouldn't be like that now. The internal compensation that used to happen before should be re-engaged.

[Postman]

A quick test shows that waveforms within crossfades appear different GRAPHICALLY, from PT10 to PT12, but the sonic result is identical.

I tested with sine waves (correlated at the fade points) and pink noise (uncorrelated at the fade points), both equal power and equal gain, and clip to clip on the same track as well as clip to clip on different tracks. The two source tracks went to a bus, which was recorded to a mono track in each version of Pro Tools. The two recorded tracks cancel perfectly, which means that sonically there is no difference from PT10 to PT12. This test was done on Mac (see my specs).

I can understand how it could be discomforting to find an appearance change but honestly I never even noticed. The sound did not change.

[Rich Breen]

wha? you mean you actually *tested* this? What a concept... ;-) Thanks Richard!

[Postman]

Hi Rich!

An old-timer's habit that I haven't been able to shake off. At some point today I'll upload a pair of screenshots the show what happens. It would sure be convenient if we could just attach such things without using 3rd party hosts

[tj7]

Many thanks, everyone.

For some reason the default setting in my sessions had changed from "equal gain" to "equal power" (confusing terms, IMO, equal GAIN makes more sense by definition) and sure enough, it's functioning how it should when I set it back to "equal power". Hadn't thought to check that.

Graphically it still needs work but how things sound is the most important thing.

Gracias all!

Originally Posted by Postman

A quick test shows that waveforms within crossfades appear different GRAPHICALLY, from PT10 to PT12, but the sonic result is identical.

I tested with sine waves (correlated at the fade points) and pink noise (uncorrelated at the fade points), both equal power and equal gain, and clip to clip on the same track as well as clip to clip on different tracks. The two source tracks went to a bus, which was recorded to a mono track in each version of Pro Tools. The two recorded tracks cancel perfectly, which means that sonically there is no difference from PT10 to PT12. This test was done on Mac (see my specs).

I can understand how it could be discomforting to find an appearance change but honestly I never even noticed. The sound did not change.