MIDI problem - can anyone replicate?

[midnightrambler]

I'm on 2020.3, 10.14.6, HD Native.

Can anyone see if they can reproduce this on their system please? I'm currently in conversation with AVID Tech support who are being very evasive about whether they can reproduce this problem on their side. Their current suggestion is to "delete Pro Tools prefs"

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2562069&postcount=16

[ibbod0]

no issue here unless i turn delay compensation off. sure you haven't turned it off by mistake? i'm on windows btw.

[midnightrambler]

Yeah it's not delay compensation, you can see it's active from the mix window in the video I uploaded. Thanks for checking anyway.

[clutch]

Just replicated your test.
At buffer size of 32 I could record just fine. MIDI lined up as good as I would expect.

Changing to a buffer size of 1024 made the instrument unplayable - the delay was too much for my ears. I found I had to anticipate the note hugely to make it sound even close to in time with the click. Once I muted the record track I continued hitting the keyboard note in time with the click, stopped recording and listened to the result, which was perfect.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by clutch

Just replicated your test.
At buffer size of 32 I could record just fine. MIDI lined up as good as I would expect.

Changing to a buffer size of 1024 made the instrument unplayable - the delay was too much for my ears. I found I had to anticipate the note hugely to make it sound even close to in time with the click. Once I muted the record track I continued hitting the keyboard note in time with the click, stopped recording and listened to the result, which was perfect.

Yes that tallies with my experience of when I switched the playback engine to "ProTools Aggregate" (from Native HD) - a completely unplayable VI.

[innesireinar]

Originally Posted by clutch

Just replicated your test.
At buffer size of 32 I could record just fine. MIDI lined up as good as I would expect.

Changing to a buffer size of 1024 made the instrument unplayable - the delay was too much for my ears. I found I had to anticipate the note hugely to make it sound even close to in time with the click. Once I muted the record track I continued hitting the keyboard note in time with the click, stopped recording and listened to the result, which was perfect.

Exactly. When working at high buffer size you hear latency, to compensate this your brain lets you play earlier, then when playback what you just recorded you hear all out of beat.

[midnightrambler]

So after a week of to'ing and fro'ing the "support" department have now decided this is a feature, not a bug.

"On a recording side, obviously, if you set your buffer size to 1024 you will experience a delay. The higher the amount of buffer size the higher chance of getting a delay during recording. You can just adjust your buffer size to a much higher amount if you are now on mastering the mix."

No explanation as to why there's a delay, whether it happens on all systems or if it's just mine (hint: it almost certainly won't be), why they can't just build in some sort of correction so that MIDI can be played in on ANY buffer size. It's taken a week for them to admit that it just doesn't work as it should, after asking me to waste time doing things like changing the USB cable, deleting prefs, trying a different VI, etc etc.

I'm so angry.

[lesbrunn]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

I'm on 2020.3, 10.14.6, HD Native.

Can anyone see if they can reproduce this on their system please? I'm currently in conversation with AVID Tech support who are being very evasive about whether they can reproduce this problem on their side. Their current suggestion is to "delete Pro Tools prefs"

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2562069&postcount=16

PT has been like this for as far back as I can remember. Lower buffer settings give you lower latency. 32-256 is OK for recording 1024 will definitely be 'unplayable' because you hear the sound later than you should. It doesn't always work perfectly, but Preferences>MIDI>Global MIDI Playback Offset allows you to compensate with a -value. 512 would be offset with -512 etc.
In my experience, certain VI's exhibit this issue more than others. If it's too bad you can compensate more from Event>MIDI Track Offsets on a per track basis.

[falcowe]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

I'm on 2020.3, 10.14.6, HD Native.

Can anyone see if they can reproduce this on their system please? I'm currently in conversation with AVID Tech support who are being very evasive about whether they can reproduce this problem on their side. Their current suggestion is to "delete Pro Tools prefs"

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2562069&postcount=16

Hey I gave your test a shot on my system. I have a radically different setup so I don't know how much good this is but I am not having the issue you showed in your video. My midi is lining up after recording. Obviously playing with 1024 buffer there was latency. But playback was fine. I'm running HD software with an RME UFX+. Now since I don't own battery I couldn't exactly replicate the test so I used the Mini Grand Air inst. This makes me think that maybe there is latency being added by kontakt? Have you tried different VI manufacturers? Especially Avid's own stuff to see if you are getting the same problem across multiple types of VIs? Just a thought.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by falcowe

Hey I gave your test a shot on my system. I have a radically different setup so I don't know how much good this is but I am not having the issue you showed in your video. My midi is lining up after recording. Obviously playing with 1024 buffer there was latency. But playback was fine. I'm running HD software with an RME UFX+. Now since I don't own battery I couldn't exactly replicate the test so I used the Mini Grand Air inst. This makes me think that maybe there is latency being added by kontakt? Have you tried different VI manufacturers? Especially Avid's own stuff to see if you are getting the same problem across multiple types of VIs? Just a thought.

Thanks for this. I've tried the same test on my laptop / Focsurite setup and I get the same results as yours, i.e. rubbish playability on record, but plays back as played in. So might be something to do with the HD Native configuration that allows "latency-free" recording but inaccurate playback.