Eleven Rack as mixing interface?

[Allbaldo]

I'm a guitarist and mix engineer. I've been doing my mix work on a 002r for the last several years, and I'd like to upgrade a bit, but I have a pretty limited budget. I'm working on PT9, and would like to end up with PT11. I track a lot of guitars at home, and have used the Eleven plug in a lot, and it's been very helpful. I've tried the Eleven Rack for guitar, and it works well for several things that would help me, including tracking guitars at home, and reamping for mix projects. My question is this...

What are people's opinions about using the Eleven Rack as an interface for mixing? Do any users here feel it would compare favorably to an MBox 3 Pro, or a 003r? It has sufficient inputs for what I need at home. I've read that the convertors themselves are the same as in the MBox 3 Pro, but of course convertors are only part of the story in an interface. Any opinions would be much appreciated. I thought if it was a solid interface that sounded good, I'd use it with some kind of passive monitor box ala Central Station.

I'll likely post this in the Pro Tools (not HD) forum as well.

Thanks!

Stephen

Mac Mini Server
OSX 10.7
PT 9
002r

[nst7]

The conversion of the 11R is not even in the same universe as the Mbox 3 (regular and Pro). I have used the 11R, the Mbox 3, and the 003. The 11R conversion is not even quite as good as the 003, and the 003 is light years behind the new Mboxes.

Functionally, you can mix with any interface with 2 outputs. But if you want an upgrade in sound quality, you would be better off taking the money you would spend on a central station and buying a better sounding interface, like the Mbox (regular or Pro), or Apogee Duet, etc. Mix with that, and just use your 11R for guitar work and recording.

[Allbaldo]

Thanks for the info nst7! I'll consider that. I've been looking at the MBox 3 Pro for some time, mainly for the "control room" functions. It has more inputs than I need, so I had hoped the 11R would be of similar quality, and I'd gain the guitar sim features. I suppose aving too many inputs isn't the worst thing that can happen. The 11R's are cheap and plentiful, so maybe the best plan is to go MBox 3 Pro, and save up for the 11R for later. Thanks again!

[nst7]

If you get a new Mbox Pro, it comes bundled with Protools 11. So if you do that, then you might see about getting a used 11R without software (to save money, since you would have the software with the Mbox Pro).

[Deansy]

Originally Posted by nst7

The conversion of the 11R is not even in the same universe as the Mbox 3 (regular and Pro).... .

For mixing to digital using SPDIF or another program like cubase where you mix down to a wave file why is the MBX better? I can see for recording through the MIC input or line in and mixing to analog through the XLR etc, but using the SPDIF out or simply to a wave file, I'm not sure I can see why there would be any difference! It has more to do with the summing engine of the software DAW in the mixing stage rather than the Audio interface since no conversion is really occurring! Cubase or nuendo have 32 bit engine and tracks so there's more headroom!

[brianiac5150]

Originally Posted by nst7

The conversion of the 11R is not even in the same universe as the Mbox 3 (regular and Pro). I have used the 11R, the Mbox 3, and the 003. The 11R conversion is not even quite as good as the 003, and the 003 is light years behind the new Mboxes.

I'm on the fence about adding an Mbox Pro to my collection, but am really hesitant. I've got a couple 11R's, an 002R and original Mbox - all still working (knocking on my wooden head), however, reading Craig Anderton's review has piqued my interest.

Would the sound really be that noticeably different?

The monitoring capabilities are also very intriguing, however, having my 11R for tracking and re-amping is extremely nice. I'll be perusing it's user guide after this post to review using it with the Mbox, but thought I'd just throw the question out here, came across this post and thought I'd add to it.

[nst7]

Originally Posted by Deansy

For mixing to digital using SPDIF or another program like cubase where you mix down to a wave file why is the MBX better? I can see for recording through the MIC input or line in and mixing to analog through the XLR etc, but using the SPDIF out or simply to a wave file, I'm not sure I can see why there would be any difference! It has more to do with the summing engine of the software DAW in the mixing stage rather than the Audio interface since no conversion is really occurring! Cubase or nuendo have 32 bit engine and tracks so there's more headroom!

I'm not quite sure I understand your post, but he was asking about conversion quality in general. At the very least, better converters will make a difference in how well he hears his mix playing back, to make hopefully more accurate and better mixing decisions.

There is also the completely different and much debated subject of whether or not the clocking is involved when doing a real time bounce to disk. I've heard it argued both ways. Usually units with better converters have better clocks as well. Even if it doesn't make a difference in a bounce to disk, it will make a big difference if he uses alternate methods of mixdown, such as recording the mixdown internally to a stereo track, or using analog summing, etc.

[nst7]

Originally Posted by brianiac5150

I'm on the fence about adding an Mbox Pro to my collection, but am really hesitant. I've got a couple 11R's, an 002R and original Mbox - all still working (knocking on my wooden head), however, reading Craig Anderton's review has piqued my interest.

Would the sound really be that noticeably different?

The monitoring capabilities are also very intriguing, however, having my 11R for tracking and re-amping is extremely nice. I'll be perusing it's user guide after this post to review using it with the Mbox, but thought I'd just throw the question out here, came across this post and thought I'd add to it.

The sound will be different. For recording, you may notice it more as you build up more and more tracks. For mixing/playback, you'll notice it right away.

However, in your situation, you have a diverse hodgepodge of equipment of varying quality. Perhaps it might be better to sell off some of it to get one really nice unit with a good amount of I/O and some monitor control. But I'm not sure what that would be, unless you want to go for an HD Native system. But it's something to think about.

As for using your 11 Racks, you may find that you still like to just use them as is for tracking guitar, for the convenience, but if you do get a nicer interface with nicer converters, you might also experiment with going digitally from that to and from the 11 Rack, basically using it like a plugin, or hardware effects unit, and see how you like that as well (by doing that, you'd be bypassing the 11R's converters).

[Jay_uk]

Originally Posted by nst7

I'm not quite sure I understand your post, but he was asking about conversion quality in general. At the very least, better converters will make a difference in how well he hears his mix playing back, to make hopefully more accurate and better mixing decisions.

Can i ask..Does this apply even without room treatment, because i have seen it repeatedly stated that better conversion D/A is questionable without proper room treatment.

[brianiac5150]

Thanks nst7. If I could sell the stuff I have, I'd gladly do it, however, I've had no luck. I've tried selling both the Mbox and 002R here and a couple other places with simply zero responses. Same with my Mackie Onyx 1640FW. This is all gear which I did hodgepodge together as I was learning what/how I wanted/needed. I'd sell it all if I could and definitely get a more comprehensive interface - RME and Focusrite have had my eyes for a long time.

Jay...that is something worth thinking about.