New Licensing

[Dnnspv]

Originally Posted by mesaone

This is just not true. Of course Avid is competing with other companies. There are a dozen "major players" out there that make a competing product, and there is most definitely active pursuit of customers.

And PT is commonly discounted by retailers, even now. There's a particular retailer out there that sells the PT10/11 bundle new for $429.

Just to be clear, I said they are not competing with other companies with PT Native. Their focus is PT HD.

I agree that Avid obviously does not feel a need to unlock certain features in PT Native. It is my opinion, however, that the reason is because they are doing well enough in the PT HD department that they do not have to even worry about that.

No other company has software used, as the main audio software, in more American (I can't speak for the world) big budget studios than Avid. That says a whole lot about the PT HD software that only Avid sales. Add those who also buy the hardware and it further pushes Avid away from the pack with their HD product alone.

PT native is now $899 plus a subscription or you can rent it. With exception to Nuendo that is $1,700, every other DAW that native pros use cost significantly less, does not have an additional subscription or rental to worry about, and also has more advance features for both MIDI and audio. Is that to be perceived as an active pursuit of a potential customer looking to simply buy Cubase Pro 8, which has nearly every PT 11 feature and also some HD features, plus VST Expression for composing and VCA faders for mixing when done composing, all for $549?

Also...

1) Engineers running project studios, making a living recording and mixing audio, use HDN and CPTK, not PT Naitve. Why? Because PT Native is locked in a way that forces even that mid level group of engineers to the HD software.

2) Native producers relying on MIDI sequencing, virtual instruments and sample loops overwhelmingly use Cubase, Ableton Live, Logic, Digital Performer, Cakewalk and even Fruit Loops Studio.

Who is using PT Native enough for Avid to even care about unlocking features, discounting it and competing with Logic and Cubase? PT Native is simply available to a small user base of hobbyists and some pros who are the only people on earth that do not care about features that speed up workflow.

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I think others like you have had the same issues. Every time I've helped someone trouble-shoot their issues, it always boiled down to either user error, plugins that had not been approved or updated, or computer settings.

That's a pretty broad list there when the client is waiting and the clock ticking. Engineering were helpful and tried their best with that mac system, swapped out drives, added RAM and all sorts. It got better but never fully stable. They were big projects mind, but fine on my rig.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

My experience is very different.
One rig (PT9, PC based) was hopelessly underspecced and it perfomed massively worse than my non-proprietary CPTK+10 rig - getting a project to even load was a terrifyingly hit or miss affair. Another (mac based PT10) had endless random clicks on playback, glitches and spectacular crashes - it made sounds I've never heard before. Both these rigs were in commercial facilities.

This post proves my point. ProTools 9 started all of the stability problems because of code introduced to enable third party hardware. That is a stability killer. Also working in PC is not as fluid as working on Mac. In HD 7 and HD 8 the stuff worked.

And once again "it works on my machine" is the cry of the uninformed when it comes to software development. That does nothing for the others whose systems don't work properly. The real question is why isn't working for them? Usually it has something to do with some little bit of compatibility for multiple devices. I have a background in QA for software development. Because PCs are largely a hodgepodge of components there are far more issues and potential gotchas versus Macs which are fairly fixed/closed systems.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Originally Posted by CME

I understand cost, and msrp, mark ups, and all that goes with it. My parents and I own our own store. And we can set the prices for the items in our shop as low or as high as we'd like. Our suppliers might not want us to sell certain items for certain prices but it's our choice in the end. We do have agreements not to advertise below map. But that doesn't affect what we can still sell stuff for.

However it's my understanding avid is telling dealers to not sell their products for less than msrp for any reason. I don't know how that can enforce that, unless they're threatening to take away dealerships of companies they find selling below msrp. I just know something has changed or he wouldn't have said so.

It must have been before 2004 when I became friends with my GC buddy because he has never been able to discount any ProTools/Avid/Digi product for me. I did get $25 off my HD11 upgrade through a pro audio dealer that sells HD Hardware (which of course GC does not carry because they are more of a consumer retailer). But that discount came from Avid, not their store and was time limited. I knew to ask because Sweetwater had a similar deal. Avid states what their product can sell for. Even GC employees can get no more than a 5% discount on Apple products that GC sell. I'm not sure if they can get Avid products for any discount.

[WKG]

Originally Posted by CygnusX-1Bk2

This post proves my point. ProTools 9 started all of the stability problems because of code introduced to enable third party hardware. That is a stability killer. Also working in PC is not as fluid as working on Mac. In HD 7 and HD 8 the stuff worked.

And once again "it works on my machine" is the cry of the uninformed when it comes to software development. That does nothing for the others whose systems don't work properly. The real question is why isn't working for them? Usually it has something to do with some little bit of compatibility for multiple devices. I have a background in QA for software development. Because PCs are largely a hodgepodge of components there are far more issues and potential gotchas versus Macs which are fairly fixed/closed systems.

I have had far less issues with my RME UFX than I ever did with my 002R/003R and PT. PT has been very stable with the RME interface.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Originally Posted by WKG

I have had far less issues with my RME UFX than I ever did with my 002R/003R and PT. PT has been very stable with the RME interface.

Sorry, but a 002 or 003 is not an HD system. That said I have used both rack and controller versions of 002s and 003s without issues on several (Mac) systems. Also 001. LE had horrible latency for recording, and when I had to use the smaller systems it was for creating SFX not music. But it always worked and rarely crashed and I can't remember a failed bounce until 11.2. I have had a hell of a time with black Avid MBoxes, but never the original Digi MBoxes or 00 systems.

Also Windows has always been clunky working with ProTools. Mac has always been more stable, until 9.

[WKG]

Originally Posted by CygnusX-1Bk2

Sorry, but a 002 or 003 is not an HD system. That said I have used both rack and controller versions of 002s and 003s without issues on several (Mac) systems. Also 001. LE had horrible latency for recording, and when I had to use the smaller systems it was for creating SFX not music. But it always worked and rarely crashed and I can't remember a failed bounce until 11.2. I have had a hell of a time with black Avid MBoxes, but never the original Digi MBoxes or 00 systems.

Also Windows has always been clunky working with ProTools. Mac has always been more stable, until 9.

I never said it was. I had few issues with the 002/003, on Windows. My point was really more that PT 10/11 has been more stable with a 3rd party interface, again on Windows. At this point I would not invest in an HD system, nor would I move to a different OS. Simply no point in it, especially as Avid seems to be on an erratic course. I can stay with my PT11 HD license for the next 5 years, probably 7 or 8 if I move once on the next upgrade version. It all depends on what Avid does.

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by WKG

PT has been very stable with the RME interface.

That's been my experience too, aside from TDM and HDX systems.

[Alfalfa]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

It can only be used once per USB eLicenser device, it only covers Steinberg licenses (eg it does not cover my Arturia and Vienna licenses)

Arturia has just moved off the eLicenser to their own server-based system.

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by CygnusX-1Bk2

This post proves my point. ProTools 9 started all of the stability problems because of code introduced to enable third party hardware. That is a stability killer. Also working in PC is not as fluid as working on Mac. In HD 7 and HD 8 the stuff worked.

And once again "it works on my machine" is the cry of the uninformed when it comes to software development. That does nothing for the others whose systems don't work properly. The real question is why isn't working for them? Usually it has something to do with some little bit of compatibility for multiple devices. I have a background in QA for software development. Because PCs are largely a hodgepodge of components there are far more issues and potential gotchas versus Macs which are fairly fixed/closed systems.

And yet win7, RME, 10.3.9 was rock soild, while that particular Mac HDX wasnt. Funny old world, eh?

My guess is that some plugins that were fine (Waves, Sonnox) on my system weren't on theirs. Perhaps your argument makes more sense if you make it TDM vs Native. But even that's a guess, could have been something else - a dodgy HDX card even.

This has all got wildly OT of course. Point is - wishing for yesteryear is pretty fruitless. Avid have demonstrated that stability can exist with 3rd party, it's just they haven't got to that place yet with 11. I guess that's the most important thing they have to prove with regard to customers signing up for subs.