Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-14-2021, 12:02 PM
BLG BLG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 115
Default Tiny delay in new recordings

I've been using Pro Tools for just over a year and nothing has changed in my setup (except that I started using the Izotope suite of plugins about 2 months ago). I just went to punch in few vocal and guitar changes to a song that was recorded over the past 6 weeks and while doing the vocals I noticed that they were a bit behind the rest of the song (by maybe a 32nd note). So I reluctantly went into slip mode and moved them back to match up. Then I just recorded some new guitars and noticed the same thing. Given that nothing has changed since I started recording this song (79 tracks in total) what could suddenly be causing this?

I'm using PT 2021.10.0 on a PC with 32GB of memory and an i9 CPU. Focusrite 4i4 interface.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-14-2021, 12:22 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,511
Default Re: Tiny delay in new recordings

Solving many of these problems start with knowing exactly how far out things are? In samples... and what sample rate are you working at. And with what IO buffer size? Measure those latencies in Pro Tools with the timeline display in sample mode.

Are you tracking through plugins? Plugins used on other tracks you are playing against? Do you have delay comp turned on? Hopefully you have this reduced to a dead simple session to play/learn with.

There are a few things to learn/sort out. Create a session with a click track recorded to an audio track. Now just try record another track where you clap or play along to the click track. Put the timeline in sample mode and measure latencies between those tracks. Do all that with *no* plugins and delay comp turned off. Play from there.

And if this is an issue related to plugins, you should know what kind of latency the vendors spec for those plugins (and where using them is a bad idea because of latency) and you should be looking at the Pro Tools latency compensation display to see if what Pro Tools is applying kinda makes sense. And with many iZotope plugins, e.g. Maximizer you really should know this... and not say be trying to track with plugins like Maximizer, or at least not in it's super high-latency modes (same rule applies for other look ahead limiters).

AFAIK Pro Tools standard does not correct for actual interface hardware conversion latency so there is always a small lag due to that. But that one does not affect/is not noticed by most folks.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 11-14-2021 at 12:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-14-2021, 12:52 PM
BLG BLG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 115
Default Re: Tiny delay in new recordings

Sample rate is 44.1. HW Buffer size is 1024 samples. Not sure if that's the same as IO buffer size. That's the only sample size I know of.

No plug-ins on the tracks being recorded. Yes - there are numerous plug-ins on the other tracks. Yes - Delay comp is turned on. No - as I mentioned this is for an existing song so I haven't reduced it down to a dead-simple session to play/learn with. I could try with a brand-new empty session, but what good would that do for the song I'm working on now and need to make changes to.

I got this fixed by turning off Ozone on the Master track.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-14-2021, 12:53 PM
BLG BLG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 115
Default FIXED - Re: Tiny delay in new recordings

I got this fixed by turning off Ozone on the Master track. No idea why this started happening now as I've recorded many of the other tracks with Ozone enabled.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-14-2021, 01:02 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,511
Default Re: Tiny delay in new recordings

Playing with stuff is for you to learn, if you are being tripped up by this you may get tripped up more in future. Great you found it was just a high latency plugin on the output…no way to compensate for that.

And I'd guess you changed Ozone settings that changed latency. It's a mastering suite, not really intended to use while tracking.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-15-2021, 08:08 AM
albee1952's Avatar
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 39,307
Default Re: Tiny delay in new recordings

Indeed^^^ Now, to further the learning process, go to View>Mix Window and check the option to show Delay Compensation. This will add a row across the lower part of the MIX window allowing you to see what ADC is actually doing. This helps you learn which plugins have lots of latency(so you can avoid those while tracking). Also note that plugins on the master track are not compensated for(usually there is no need). And the last bit to know is;Delay Compensation works by finding the track with the highest total latency, and then it makes every other track late by the same amount(IOW, it doesn't move later stuff earlier, so latency will always sound..err..........later

Solutions for latency while tracking:
1-no high-latency plugins in use
2-low buffer setting(64 or 128 are usually fine)
3-you can "get around" plugin latency by making that plugin inactive(not bypass as that does not change the plugin latency)
__________________
HP Z4 workstation, Mbox Studio
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink, the more I mix

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-17-2021, 12:49 AM
WombatStudio.Org's Avatar
WombatStudio.Org WombatStudio.Org is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gibbsboro, NJ
Posts: 563
Default Re: Tiny delay in new recordings

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLG View Post
Sample rate is 44.1. HW Buffer size is 1024 samples. Not sure if that's the same as IO buffer size. That's the only sample size I know of.
If your hardware buffer is set to 1024, you MUST be monitoring direct rather than through Pro Tools ... Also, you cannot track with a bunch of latent plugins running - even if delay compensation is turned on, it's never enough for tracking.

Like someone suggested, display the delay compensation in the mixer - you want to get that to ZERO to have new recordings line up. Do this by inactivating all plugins and dropping buffer to at least 128, preferably 64 - record the new tracks and turn all the plugins back on.

In cases where I have HUGE sessions where deactivating/activating all those plugins would be an issue, I inactivate the most abusive plugins (definitely limiters) and bounce out a "work" mix in WAV format. Then I quit without saving as to keep all the plugins as they were.

I create a new session, import that bounced WAV and record new tracks with NO plugins - Load the old "In Progress" session and "Session Import" in the new tracks.
__________________
WombatStudio.Org • Digital Recording, Mixing and Mastering in Gibbsboro, NJ • USA
"It's not the gear ... it's the ear"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tiny Tiny Fonts Shatzer Pro Tools 12 7 09-27-2016 09:10 AM
Need Help with the tiny screws on the top! Please! :-) blackmacdaddy ProControl, Control|24, Command|8 0 04-11-2007 01:01 AM
tiny fonts quartermayne 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 5 01-24-2004 03:55 AM
tiny interface needs rojo MIDI 8 05-26-2003 01:15 PM
"Tiny Computer" bennycon 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 01-15-2001 08:46 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com