Protools multichannel now requires HDX?

[Farhoof]

Just thinking out loud and asking if I'm seeing this right:

I'm browsing around for new Protools edit rigs (post production), evaluating all options, modern interfaces etc. We are running full native now as it's more powerful than our hdx systems. Looking at interfaces and all-in options the MTRX Studio seems like a wonderful machine. Proper IO options, room calibration, monitor control, etc. But the only way to connect it to a Mac is via Digilink. No thunderbolt or usb. And with the HD native being end of life (now both pci and thunderbolt), the only way to get a Digilink port is with a $4999,- HDX card, which is only used for the port(!).

Am I missing something here? If one wants to stick to Avid hardware, there is now a HUGE $10.000,- gap between the new stereo mbox and the cheapest multichannel options (HDX+thunderbolt chassis+MTRX Studio combo).

I am aware there are still leftover stocks of thunderbolt HD native being sold and those still work. But I am wondering what is Avid's stance on this? Why isn't there a multichannel interface option with a thunderbolt/usb connection? Is it in the works? Is there some new digilink box coming up? Yes I can buy a Dante interface and use that to connect it to a MTRX, but then I might as well buy a proper MTRX Studio alternative and skip this whole double interface setup.

So what is Avid's own recommendation getting multichannel audio out of Protools?

[JFreak]

Current recommendation is obviously HDX.

It wasn't a long time ago they opened CoreAudio to 256 i/o so that may (or may not) be a hint.

[originalscottyg]

You can use a MTRX Studio without DigiLink and connect it via Dante. However, it would be best using a hardware Dante interface, like a RedNet PCIe card (or whatever the replacement for that currently is) rather than DVS, as latency with DVS is far from optimal and DVS stability on Apple Silicon hasn't wowed me, so far.

[smurfyou]

I pointed this out in another main thread concerning the HD Native.

Avid shot itself in the foot. I'm not sure if they have a plan or if they didn't think that far ahead. It's ridiculous.

Dante is not a viable option. Until they get realistic and put in a USB or Thunderbolt interface on the MTRX Studio they're a non starter for anyone who doesn't already have HD Native or HDX.

Of course maybe they feel it isn't a big deal since MTRX Studio isn't available anywhere...

[Bob Olhsson]

https://www.digitalaudio.dk/AX32-Aud...rter.2056.aspx

[bewk]

Originally Posted by Farhoof

So what is Avid's own recommendation getting multichannel audio out of Protools?

I've been wondering the same thing since the announcement at the end of the year. I don't think Avid is in a position of not critically thinking of every decision they make. We may not like them or feel that they are helpful but I'm fairly confident that this very question has come up within their walls and EOL'ing TB Native is part of a some kind of plan. In the "near" future (who knows how soon because Avid keeps everything close to the chest) I feel a Thunderbolt adapter will be available for the MTRX Studio. I took the liberty of removing the small panel on the back of my unit only to find a slot ready for Thunderbolt. See here. I know there are no guarantees but why even go the route of building this into the MTRX Studio if not for expansion in the future? Again, it being a part of Avid's plan to pull TB Native from the lineup, it makes sense that TB would not be included on the MTRX Studio upon introduction because it would likely cut into sales of the soon to be retired TB Native box. I'd be curious to know when the last run of production happened for those. The sequence of events is consistent with how they operate so none of this is really a surprise.

The elephant in the room still has to do with connectivity to the Sync X since the digiserial port is tied to frame edge sync. As you suggest, maybe some kind of updated TB/digilink device not dissimilar to what was just retired would be sufficient. Something that capitalizes on the speed and bandwidth of TB with a low enough latency option for tracking seems within reach.

But, we're all asking the right question with "HDX...really? This is our only option?" It is long in the tooth and most aren't really up for forking over that kind of cash for 20 year old tech. My hope is that when/if the expander card for the MTRX Studio is released we'll get some insight to how PT will perform with a direct TB option of their own making and hopefully introduce the next evolution of connectivity along with it. As mentioned, they unlocked the I/O of PT to CoreAudio that was forever beholden to the number of HDX cards you had. With them slowly lifting all the hardware restrictions it feels like the shift towards a new host based connectivity (or DSP evolved) version of PT is forthcoming. The writing is on the wall that HDX will eventually find itself on that EOL list but not until Avid is ready with the "new new". They have to/need to adapt to stay in the game but it will happen on their term$. Which means we're in the dark...until we're not.

[LDS]

On the Pro Tools facebook group I asked an Avid representative what this means for sync peripherals moving forward. All I got was a somewhat backhanded reply of "HDX + Sync X" followed by something along the lines of "well, if you don't need it, you don't need it" when I queried the sudden increase to $9000 worth of hardware to achieve something simple like edge frame sync.

I would love to think that Avid have a new solution to this on the horizon, but it also wouldn't surprise me if this was just the death rattle of Avid audio interfaces in general. We are already seeing a spate of new USB/TB multichannel interfaces that really lift the bar in feature sets and performance. The AX-64 is pretty darn impressive compared to the MTRX. A lot of people are using Metric Halo stuff which supports surround sound, various expansion card options, room EQ, monitor control, Eucon, etc.

Other stuff like the Focusrite Red Pre/Line series has been around for 7 years now, and is next to impossible to find in 2023. If Avid move to TB with the MTRX Studio, then I suspect most of those older digilink-based interface designs floating around will disappear and be replaced with newer and more powerful stuff...

Then suddenly, there won't really be much that is unique to the MTRX Studio at all, other than the Avid logo.


I just really hope they don't decide to do more with AVB. What a silly choice.

[bewk]

Originally Posted by LDS

On the Pro Tools facebook group I asked an Avid representative what this means for sync peripherals moving forward. All I got was a somewhat backhanded reply of "HDX + Sync X" followed by something along the lines of "well, if you don't need it, you don't need it" when I queried the sudden increase to $9000 worth of hardware to achieve something simple like edge frame sync.

I don't think they have a choice but to respond that way if even there's a hardware solution in development behind closed doors. As a publicly traded company they are bound by their words and cannot release info until the company deems is so. If HDX is all they have, it's the only way they can answer. I don't like it. It feels like a step in the wrong direction, but my hope is that's it's temporary.

Originally Posted by LDS

I would love to think that Avid have a new solution to this on the horizon, but it also wouldn't surprise me if this was just the death rattle of Avid audio interfaces in general. We are already seeing a spate of new USB/TB multichannel interfaces that really lift the bar in feature sets and performance. The AX-64 is pretty darn impressive compared to the MTRX. A lot of people are using Metric Halo stuff which supports surround sound, various expansion card options, room EQ, monitor control, Eucon, etc.

Agreed. All of those are solid solutions and that AX-64 is a beast! Core 256 is too. Just goes to show what can be done without being bound by the antiquated means of connectivity Avid has held on to for so long. I felt like the opening of CoreAudio support would have put us on the exit ramp of the digilink highway but here we are in 2023 still going on about it.

I love the nature of DAD's architecture and feel they were a great partner for offering a new interface(s). Being an HD Native user it was logical for me but to stick with digilink and jumped on the MTRX Studio as soon as it was announced. It checked almost every box I needed in a new interface so I know they're capable of doing it right (sometimes). I feel like it was a byproduct of feedback from a lot of users who were looking for an all inclusive Atmos solution that could handle 9.1.6. They actually got it right (minus the TB connectivity)...and AES but, whatever. It's 1RU with tons of flexibility, sounds great and it has been rock solid so far. No complaints. So, we know they're capable of something right. I hope, for all of us, that the next move is on that same path.

Originally Posted by LDS

Other stuff like the Focusrite Red Pre/Line series has been around for 7 years now, and is next to impossible to find in 2023. If Avid move to TB with the MTRX Studio, then I suspect most of those older digilink-based interface designs floating around will disappear and be replaced with newer and more powerful stuff...

Then suddenly, there won't really be much that is unique to the MTRX Studio at all, other than the Avid logo.

Agreed! And I welcome this day. The less tied we are to the hardware dongles the better off users are with choosing their own hardware solutions. I get that the closed system has its perks with Avid testing and validating performance. Having spent years navigating from TDM to Accel to HDX/HD Native, I had confidence knowing that those turnkey solutions performed as designed. I mean, people are still buying HDX despite its age. What it offers has merit for those who need to check those boxes (live tracking, frame edge sync, etc). I just think we all agree that it's time to move on to that more powerful stuff sooner rather than later. Because it's already "later". Waaaayyyy later.

Originally Posted by LDS

I just really hope they don't decide to do more with AVB. What a silly choice.

+1 on this too. I prefer Audinate's integration and design over the limited experiences I've had working with AVB. Though the Apple Silicon challenges are a little unsettling.

[basehead617]

Unless the business relationship has soured in some way my guess is there will be a new AX64-based MTRX.. the previous one was based on the AX32 platform of course.

[Farhoof]

Originally Posted by originalscottyg

You can use a MTRX Studio without DigiLink and connect it via Dante. However, it would be best using a hardware Dante interface, like a RedNet PCIe card (or whatever the replacement for that currently is) rather than DVS, as latency with DVS is far from optimal and DVS stability on Apple Silicon hasn't wowed me, so far.

Although it's viable, the MTRX would then act only as a switch box (I know, hence 'matrix'). Protools' playback engine and IO options would be whatever interface you connect to it. The Dante only cards or TB boxes seem viable, but spend any more than that and one might as well get a third party interface offering all-in-one. Avid makes it hard to keep things all-Avid.

Originally Posted by bewk

I took the liberty of removing the small panel on the back of my unit only to find a slot ready for Thunderbolt. See here. I know there are no guarantees but why even go the route of building this into the MTRX Studio if not for expansion in the future?

This is interesting. But I remember there was a working thunderbolt Avid Omni unit at some venue (namm/aes), but it never went into production. Although it would have been nice, it would have been similar to the TB HD native box combined with the omni which was being sold. Seems like they went the same route with the MTRX Studio, but now with the hd native removed it's a different situation.

The writing is on the wall that HDX will eventually find itself on that EOL list but not until Avid is ready with the "new new". They have to/need to adapt to stay in the game but it will happen on their term$. Which means we're in the dark...until we're not.

Exactly this. Sometimes I am genuinely surprised about new products. I just have no clue _at all_ in which direction they want to go. It's like Apple sometimes, you think they only care about the money making iphones and laptops and suddenly they hit us with the mac studio, restoring some faith.
I have no need anymore for a next gen HDX-like system (unless it's something revolutionary), but now they are pushing me away from their interfaces as well, which have always been top notch.

Originally Posted by LDS

On the Pro Tools facebook group I asked an Avid representative what this means for sync peripherals moving forward. All I got was a somewhat backhanded reply of "HDX + Sync X" followed by something along the lines of "well, if you don't need it, you don't need it" when I queried the sudden increase to $9000 worth of hardware to achieve something simple like edge frame sync.

That's just awful

Also, before Covid all our studio's were fully booked. Now half of them have been empty for years. Most of our (freelance) crew is working from home these days, parttime or even fulltime. None of them is buying Avid interfaces or hardware other than the s1. This can't be good in the long term.

I really want to drink the kool-aid but it's hard