Delay compensation for recording or only for Playback? Experts needed!

[Rockman413]

Is delay compensation only for playback ?

I see this video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HukB-G303E

There's delay for monitering but when it comes to record it, pro tools puts it back perfectly in line with beat grid. Is this just Ensemble or any interface will have this function? Is there a name for this function?

I also record the sounds from a bus from a aax instrument (like piano) but the bigger buffer size I have the latency I got for recording (recorded piano sample sound are falling behind the beat grid)

and is there a reason we should always leave the Delay Compensation at Max?

[Rockman413]

anyone knows?

[asoemo]

Hey there!

It seems that you are confusing input and output delay compensation and plugin delay compensation. The video you have talks about I/o compensation. Pro tools has been doing this for a long time actually and I don't know how to even turn that functionality off. Not sure why one would want to.

The other type of delay compensation (which you seem to be asking about) is for plugin delay introduced by audio processing within the pro tools mixer. It can be turned on and off globally or on a per track basis but I haven't found a need to turn it off globally in recent years. I have used the ability to turn if off on a few tracks. Specifically if I'm routing midi from an instrument track to another track. Only one of the tracks needs to be delayed so sometimes there are issues with things getting double delay. It easy enough to disable one of the delays per track in the mix window though.

I hope this helps!

- Andy

[asoemo]

One more thing. The I/o delay compensation and the plugin delay would work together. For instance if your monitoring buffer were 512 samples and the pro tools mixer was compensating the monitoring of all the tracks for a plugin that had a latency of 1024 samples, the newly recorded track would need to be adjusted over by the total amount of all of the latency in the chain so that it could line up perfectly. If you disabled plugin delay compensation for recoding, it would only need to nudge the new audio by the monitoring buffer. All that to say that the two are different things although they do work together in a lot of scenarios.

- Andy

[Rockman413]

Originally Posted by asoemo

One more thing. The I/o delay compensation and the plugin delay would work together. For instance if your monitoring buffer were 512 samples and the pro tools mixer was compensating the monitoring of all the tracks for a plugin that had a latency of 1024 samples, the newly recorded track would need to be adjusted over by the total amount of all of the latency in the chain so that it could line up perfectly. If you disabled plugin delay compensation for recoding, it would only need to nudge the new audio by the monitoring buffer. All that to say that the two are different things although they do work together in a lot of scenarios.

- Andy

Thank you , very helpful!

Do you mean : the delay compensation function which you can choose short/long/max also affects the IO compensation?

The video I showed does not actually input from physchial Input, but a inner bus I think, so even inner BUS Input has compensation?

If there's this function for Input compensation, why the audio I recorded are falling behind of the grid, not compensated?

[albee1952]

IO compensation usually operates "under the hood"(you don't pay attention to it, or notice it unless its not working right). Latency due to the buffer setting is simple(lower the buffer for lower latency, raise it for less strain on the computer), so use a low buffer while recording.

Plugin latency compensation is another beast to get your head around. For this function to do its job, it analyses every track/plugin chain to find the one with the highest latency, and then makes all the other tracks later to match. What this means is; if you try to track with a high-latency plugin(like some mastering limiters), you will hear this extra latency in the headphones and it will mess with YOUR timing(its tough to play in time if you hear stuff late). My point is that you need to pay attention to plugin latency compensation while tracking(once its time to mix, none of this latency will matter as long as its compensated for correctly)

[Eric Lambert]

Delay comp has been a struggle for more years than I can remember, especially if you're using MIDI. With tiny sessions and ultra-low buffers it's *less* of an issue but our sessions are rarely small, so delay comp is a constant issue. One of the biggest struggles is overdubbing MIDI within a large session. You want the MIDI track you're punching into to play in time with everyone else, but as soon as you engage record it slips. Turning off delay comp isn't an option because other tracks will slip out of sync. We just go with the lowest buffer that will allow the session to play, bypass master fader plugins, and hope for the best. But in extreme cases I still have to play to a track that is a little off, or just slide MIDI after the fact.

In short, yes, it's an issue which still hasn't been tackled entirely. It *SHOULD* be handled in the background and never a factor, but that's not the case.

This is where it's crucial to understand how PT deals with compensation. It's not a hands-off plug-and-play DAW and you'll need to understand how it deals with audio/MIDI and ADC. It sounds like you're getting the hang of it but I'm amazed by how few people truly understand the ins and outs of latency.

[Rockman413]

Originally Posted by albee1952

IO compensation usually operates "under the hood"(you don't pay attention to it, or notice it unless its not working right). Latency due to the buffer setting is simple(lower the buffer for lower latency, raise it for less strain on the computer), so use a low buffer while recording.

the delay compensation function relates to the plugins , so the short/long/max options selections do not affects the IO compensation?

[Rockman413]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

Delay comp has been a struggle for more years than I can remember, especially if you're using MIDI. With tiny sessions and ultra-low buffers it's *less* of an issue but our sessions are rarely small, so delay comp is a constant issue. One of the biggest struggles is overdubbing MIDI within a large session. You want the MIDI track you're punching into to play in time with everyone else, but as soon as you engage record it slips. Turning off delay comp isn't an option because other tracks will slip out of sync. We just go with the lowest buffer that will allow the session to play, bypass master fader plugins, and hope for the best. But in extreme cases I still have to play to a track that is a little off, or just slide MIDI after the fact.

In short, yes, it's an issue which still hasn't been tackled entirely. It *SHOULD* be handled in the background and never a factor, but that's not the case.

This is where it's crucial to understand how PT deals with compensation. It's not a hands-off plug-and-play DAW and you'll need to understand how it deals with audio/MIDI and ADC. It sounds like you're getting the hang of it but I'm amazed by how few people truly understand the ins and outs of latency.

IN fact all I'm using is midi tracks. It's like I record all the midi virtual instruments sounds, and I want to be perfectly in line with each other. Why there is IO compensastion for internal bus audio recording , and there's no compensation for internal bus virtual insrument recording?

[XJENSEN]

Bumped into this today.. Still not fixed, apparently (Pro Tools 2019.12).