project studio construction nightmare.

[Emcha_audio]

I'm building a pjs for a friend of mine here in Quebec, but it's a complete nightmare.

The room he has to work with is 11 foot long by 10 foot wide and 9 foot high.
On the north wall (10 foot wide) he has a window that makes about 7 foot wide, by 4 foot high) Double windows so not so much a problem.

on the south east corner, he has two doors that opens from the inside. one for a closet, one for the room entrance.

The kicker is that he's on a second floor, without a concrete floor, and absolutely no sound insulation...

For the most part, I have no problem with sound insulating his room and then balancing it, but the floor is leaving me perplex. The floor can't support a concrete slab, so I'm wondering beside putting in some sound insulating fibers (quietbat), what else could be done? Do any of you know of any product that can act as a floating floor, where the finishing wood paneling can then be placed over it?

[77pro]

I put in a wood floor for a dance studio many years back, and used neoprene pads fastened to the underside of the sleepers (2x4's on flat) over a concrete floor. They were made especially for this application (floating floor), but I can't remember their exact name. Approx 3"x3" x 1/2" thick, with air pockets runnung thru the thickness and tabs on each side to attach them. Hope this helps your search.

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

I'm building a pjs for a friend of mine here in Quebec, but it's a complete nightmare.

The room he has to work with is 11 foot long by 10 foot wide and 9 foot high.
On the north wall (10 foot wide) he has a window that makes about 7 foot wide, by 4 foot high) Double windows so not so much a problem.

on the south east corner, he has two doors that opens from the inside. one for a closet, one for the room entrance.

The kicker is that he's on a second floor, without a concrete floor, and absolutely no sound insulation...

For the most part, I have no problem with sound insulating his room and then balancing it, but the floor is leaving me perplex. The floor can't support a concrete slab, so I'm wondering beside putting in some sound insulating fibers (quietbat), what else could be done? Do any of you know of any product that can act as a floating floor, where the finishing wood paneling can then be placed over it?

You don't need concrete slab to float a floor. You can float a floor with wood flooring. The tough part about floating a floor is the structural engineering you need to do.

You'll need to calculate the load the floor will have, the resonance of the floor and the resonance between the floor and the sub floor. then figure out how to balance the floor using the least amount of contact with the subfloor, while still giving enough structural integrity that it can hold the weight put on it.

If you put too many contact points between the floating floor and the subfloor, it won't isolate the floor and you might as well not float the floor. If you put too little, the floating floor will collapse.

You also then need to put dampers in to dampen the resonance of the floating floor and the cavity created between the floating floor and the sub floor.

It's not easy to do, and its not one of those things where you can do it by trial and error. So if you want to do it, I would suggest contacting an acoustic/structural engineer like Francis Manzella at FM Design Ltd or John Stoyrk at Walters-Storyk Design Group. Just be aware, they are pretty expensive.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

You don't need concrete slab to float a floor. You can float a floor with wood flooring. The tough part about floating a floor is the structural engineering you need to do.

You'll need to calculate the load the floor will have, the resonance of the floor and the resonance between the floor and the sub floor. then figure out how to balance the floor using the least amount of contact with the subfloor, while still giving enough structural integrity that it can hold the weight put on it.

If you put too many contact points between the floating floor and the subfloor, it won't isolate the floor and you might as well not float the floor. If you put too little, the floating floor will collapse.

You also then need to put dampers in to dampen the resonance of the floating floor and the cavity created between the floating floor and the sub floor.

It's not easy to do, and its not one of those things where you can do it by trial and error. So if you want to do it, I would suggest contacting an acoustic/structural engineer like Francis Manzella at FM Design Ltd or John Stoyrk at Walters-Storyk Design Group. Just be aware, they are pretty expensive.

Yeah I know they are. I'm in contact with an acoustical engineering firm here in quebec, so we'll see what they can do about it.

[KroNEe]

As OG said, float it, man I only wish that was the only major obstacles I faced in building 5 studios over the years, no real budget, small square spaces, low ceilings, on and on. OG pointed out the stuff you need to be sure of, but unless it is some homeowner addition and not up to code, should be very doable. I would try and float it with no contact points if you can, many products and info out there, it will take some research and a few $$$ but you should have no issues as long as you do not have load issues, you will be adding several hundred pounds easy. there are calculators out there that can get you where you need to be. OG is spot on, research and do it! Google floating floors, you will have to pick through stuff, but it can be done! Put up links of pics for everyone to see how you end up building it. I am sure you also can get much advice along the way. Also, Geersluts has many build threads, good stuff. Amazing projects, from big $$$ to small DIY builds.

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

You don't need concrete slab to float a floor. You can float a floor with wood flooring. The tough part about floating a floor is the structural engineering you need to do.

You'll need to calculate the load the floor will have, the resonance of the floor and the resonance between the floor and the sub floor. then figure out how to balance the floor using the least amount of contact with the subfloor, while still giving enough structural integrity that it can hold the weight put on it.

If you put too many contact points between the floating floor and the subfloor, it won't isolate the floor and you might as well not float the floor. If you put too little, the floating floor will collapse.

You also then need to put dampers in to dampen the resonance of the floating floor and the cavity created between the floating floor and the sub floor.

It's not easy to do, and its not one of those things where you can do it by trial and error. So if you want to do it, I would suggest contacting an acoustic/structural engineer like Francis Manzella at FM Design Ltd or John Stoyrk at Walters-Storyk Design Group. Just be aware, they are pretty expensive.

[KroNEe]

I wish I had that kind of budget.... without looking them up, I am sure they are close to $300 a hour just for design and drawings. That was the going rate about 4-5 years ago. It is worth it if you have the budget, wish I did, I found a wealth of info online, lot of good stuff out there, and if you can use some tools and be creative, you can get some what close. They get paid that much for a reason....

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

I would suggest contacting an acoustic/structural engineer like Francis Manzella at FM Design Ltd or John Stoyrk at Walters-Storyk Design Group. Just be aware, they are pretty expensive.

[shaggy]

http://www.homasote.com/

(your biggest hassle is going to be fire code as in 3/4 inch sheet rock fire-stop).

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by KroNEe

As OG said, float it, man I only wish that was the only major obstacles I faced in building 5 studios over the years, no real budget, small square spaces, low ceilings, on and on. OG pointed out the stuff you need to be sure of, but unless it is some homeowner addition and not up to code, should be very doable. I would try and float it with no contact points if you can, many products and info out there, it will take some research and a few $$$ but you should have no issues as long as you do not have load issues, you will be adding several hundred pounds easy. there are calculators out there that can get you where you need to be. OG is spot on, research and do it! Google floating floors, you will have to pick through stuff, but it can be done! Put up links of pics for everyone to see how you end up building it. I am sure you also can get much advice along the way. Also, Geersluts has many build threads, good stuff. Amazing projects, from big $$$ to small DIY builds.

With the holidays we're still waiting on the engineer.

[O.G. Killa]

the funny thing about hemosote 440 sound barrier that they DONT tell you...

It gets a STC rating of 55... but only when you use Metal Studs spaced at 24" OC with 3 1/2 inch fiberglass insulation in between the studs AND you then use 440 Soundbarrier between the studs and the drywall.

The STC rating of that SAME setup WITHOUT the 440 Soundbarrier? 49~50 STC roughly. LOL

http://www.stcratings.com/assemblies.html

So the 440 soundbarrier is really only an STC of 5 on its own.

If you were to do a double stud construction with two layers of drywall on each side, the STC is 58~63 on it's own. Adding SoundBarrier 440 would bring it up to 63~67 STC.

Now compare that to using Quietrock instead of regular drywall.

http://www.quietrock.com/quietrock-s...stc60plus.html

Using 24" OC wood studs with QR545 (1-3/8" Quietrock) gives you an STC of 60. doing the double studs with double quietrock gives you an STC of 80. If you are going to record drums or loud guitars (Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifiers, etc) you are going to want an STC of 80 or higher!!! If you add 440 Soundbarrier to it, you will go from an STC of 80, to an STC of 85. It helps... but it isn't the amazing sound barrier to end all sound barriers the marketing material makes it out to be.

[BBass]

This book is a great resource.
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording...dp_ob_title_bk