So, no renewal. We stay at 2020.

[tclash]

I've used PT for 20 years now, and while I still think it's the best program for editing and mixing, the deterioration of the return-on-investment for the renewal prices is pretty obvious when you look at how often they actually add features, fix bugs, or add basic functionality on new OS's. And maybe I'm old-fashioned when it comes to actually owning software you've paid good money for, but the coercive tactics to get people into subscriptions leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Of course, there are a few people here who seem to get really personally defensive when Avid's practices are criticized, but the tide of opinion is pretty clear.

[cmbourget]

Originally Posted by tclash

I've used PT for 20 years now, and while I still think it's the best program for editing and mixing, the deterioration of the return-on-investment for the renewal prices is pretty obvious when you look at how often they actually add features, fix bugs, or add basic functionality on new OS's. And maybe I'm old-fashioned when it comes to actually owning software you've paid good money for, but the coercive tactics to get people into subscriptions leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Of course, there are a few people here who seem to get really personally defensive when Avid's practices are criticized, but the tide of opinion is pretty clear.

Very well and very wisely summarized. + 1

[Emi]

Originally Posted by tclash

I've used PT for 20 years now, and while I still think it's the best program for editing and mixing, the deterioration of the return-on-investment for the renewal prices is pretty obvious when you look at how often they actually add features, fix bugs, or add basic functionality on new OS's. And maybe I'm old-fashioned when it comes to actually owning software you've paid good money for, but the coercive tactics to get people into subscriptions leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Of course, there are a few people here who seem to get really personally defensive when Avid's practices are criticized, but the tide of opinion is pretty clear.

I couldn’t say it better.

[rampartthemovie]

ive said time and time again, i actualyl love using protools and i dont get the hate for the program itself BUT the actual AVID business model and practice criticism is valid.

Avid makes the perpetual option a worse option gradually. They literally doubled the prices this year. And then they got rid of reinstatements. A good way to eventually reason with customers to phase out perpetual "hey you save more money with subscription, and no more demand for perpetual!", and customers will forget they got rid of reinstatement and doubled prices for perpetual owners that lead to this anyway.

I'd be ok with subscription if their feature survey wasn't so useless and if the frequency of updates was similar to Adobe's model. We literally only got 4 updates this entire year.

[FunkzzaJ]

Originally Posted by FunkzzaJ

It's even more painful to let go of a cactus than hugging it in the first place because the barbs of the nails will peal off your skin.

Stikkiness was a word used to describe a business practice to create high exit thresholds. Perhaps perfected by microsoft with their never-ending bug-fix releases containing new bugs, creating sticky-drama. And on top of that product educations with certificates for professionals creating professional career paths.

And you don't need to provide the best burger to become the biggest burger restaurant chain.

Perhaps this is what is at play with Avid. Unempathetic and drama-creation to make people 'stick'.

Certainly customer care has been drama-creating to me. Without DUC, what would Avid customers do, what would avid do?

I believe newcomers to the DAW market will hear the drum beats and un-choose PT. Then the future for PT will be much of short subscriptions when all us old farts need to re-visit some projects of the past.

Let's see. I like PT. I don't like Avid.

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

Sooo ... since you are here and I assume a PT user ... does that mean you are an old fart then?

"us" - included in previous post. We are all old farts - some day... a day that comes sooner or later. Very inclusive, or maybe invasive ;-) And to be correct, that appointment I believe is for others, not self, to cast - the young ones. Hence not me.

/T

[Emi]

The hate is not about Pro tools is about Avid way of making business. I really like Pro tools but I can’t stand this hunger for money and forcing you to loose the perpetual license by stopping the reinstatement option. It would be a huge surprise if they are even musicians or even related to AV industry.

[GoButtonGuy]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Avid's problem here is Apple Silicon hardware is moving target.

The design and engineering guidelines and framework have been set since the update was introduced. There is no moving target as the app framework is the same regardless of the processor ability. Avid's problem, if one can call it that, is self imposed engineering management issues that dictate releases be a few or more revs behind the current build. This one is on Avid's doorstep not Apple's. That said I don't think it's reasonable to expect Avid to release native/dual binary on the first release of a new platform considering the ramp up is two years.

I've got a pretty stout 2018/2020 Mini. I've had access to a new Air and the Air absolutely spanks the Mini in every way even with 8GB of RAM. Graphics as well. The new Minis are far quicker and more responsive in every way. As soon as more software is compatible it's a no brainer to switch a machine on that level even with 16GB of RAM. The rub at this point is app compatibility not only for Avid but most everyone else.

Expect new Apple Silicon in the first part of next year according to Bloomberg. That's could be as many as 20 total cores with 32GB RAM and up to 16 GPU cores. It's rumored to be the iMac and new 14" and 16" Macbook Pros. That should be the midrange. We'll see.

Currently testing are designs with up to 32 compute cores, 128GB RAM and 64 GPU cores. There are also plans for 128 GPU cores but at this point those are still in the design phase. Those aren't expected until 2022 which is within the stated transition timeframe. It will still be a few years before most pros switch platforms, if they do at all. Until we start live events I'm doing broadcast and streaming and few at this level is even talking about upgrading hardware at this point. Those that may are looking at cheese graters. They'll still be usable for many years.

[GoButtonGuy]

Originally Posted by FunkzzaJ

Exactly.
As of current standing and experience with Avid, I would recommend AGAINST PT for any DAW shopper. And as far as I understand, I'm not alone drumming that beat. This is because of Avid, not PT.

My son (Ableton) tells me:

"Avid is simply a misspelling of Avoid"

So, in the longer run PT users are "old farts" among the younger and upcoming.

Again:
I like PT
I don't like Avid



Skickat från min Moto G (5) via Tapatalk

Heavy Pro Tools users are typically established pros in the post, broadcast and recording industries. Nothing to do with age and everything to do with application. In fact I've hired twenty somethings where a key component is the use of Pro Tools. If one needs session compatibility there is no choice. It's the standard. For example when we do something that needs sound to picture and send it to Marin or Wellington it's in a PT session format that is specific for that house and or project. Many smaller producers also need to send compatible session formats particularly when you lock to picture.

At the risk of sounding elitist most composers or part time/hobby users don't absolutely need Pro Tools. Many on this forum could do what they do with another tool. In fact many name composers, people that we work with on a regular basis (back when there was work...) are no longer using it for composition. There are other tools that many find have a more productive or suitable workflow.

It's more about how you use the tools you have. If you don't need session compatibility or interact with producers that don't use Pro Tools there are plenty of other quality tools out there. On forums like this so much is lost on what tool rather than what we do with the tools. The tools are a means to an end not the the end.

[cmbourget]

Originally Posted by GoButtonGuy

Heavy Pro Tools users are typically established pros in the post, broadcast and recording industries. Nothing to do with age and everything to do with application. In fact I've hired twenty somethings where a key component is the use of Pro Tools. If one needs session compatibility there is no choice. It's the standard. For example when we do something that needs sound to picture and send it to Marin or Wellington it's in a PT session format that is specific for that house and or project. Many smaller producers also need to send compatible session formats particularly when you lock to picture.

At the risk of sounding elitist most composers or part time/hobby users don't absolutely need Pro Tools. Many on this forum could do what they do with another tool. In fact many name composers, people that we work with on a regular basis (back when there was work...) are no longer using it for composition. There are other tools that many find have a more productive or suitable workflow.

It's more about how you use the tools you have. If you don't need session compatibility or interact with producers that don't use Pro Tools there are plenty of other quality tools out there. On forums like this so much is lost on what tool rather than what we do with the tools. The tools are a means to an end not the the end.

It is not wall to wall. I know pros in Pyramix, Sequoia, Nuendo. But PT is in the majority, it's true.

[Righty27]

Speaking for the hobbyists FWIW, I agree with GoButtonGuy and in hindsight, should probably have paid $299 once for Logic, which has continued to improve over the years and which, for obvious reasons, is always in sync with the latest macOS and more recently, Macs in general.

However, I related to and was attracted years ago by the PT workflow and enjoyed learning this ‘pro tool’ that, at least for a period during the Digidesign days, was targeting a wider audience than just post, etc. The issue now is that we’re used to, and like PT but possibly most importantly if anyone else is like me, have years worth of ‘unfinished’ projects that won’t play nice on Logic :)

Ironically, it is the pros who are most likely to lock in a PT version and OS combination for years, and thus dip in and out using perpetual licences and reinstatements. Once again it’s the age-old balance between a million users of a $1 app or one using a $1M system - how many more users would pay for yearly updates if the price for the standard version was still $99, or could Avid come up with more pricing tiers based on features ... never popular but I don’t recall anyone celebrating the current PT model on this dedicated forum either?!