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  #1  
Old 10-24-2002, 10:04 AM
Roy Howell Roy Howell is offline
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Default Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

This is to those of you who even use strings occasionally...
Most of the keyboardists I've known reach for their own tried and true method to achieve good, realistic sounding strings, for both lush and staccato type strings.
What I've been doing for a while now, is recording Midi strings to Audio, which gives me more control. But, even my Midi source is limited in string sounds, and I'm always looking to improve.
It's understood that nothing can perfectly replace real strings, but I've also heard some excellent substitutes.
So what all's out there now, and what do you engineers and producers do for strings these days?

Thanks, Roy
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Old 10-24-2002, 10:15 AM
Captain_Pants Captain_Pants is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

Roy, Im not an expert at strings, but when I do occasionally use them, to give them a more realistic sound, I always make sure to throw in a little bit of vibrato. Also, another thing that I think helps me is I dont sequence the strings when I want them to sound real. I will actually play them on the keyboard, that way they will have a (more)natural offtime and not sound so robotic..

Just my $0.02
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2002, 10:17 AM
Sabe Sabe is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

I like to combine my favs with timing/offset (to simluate high pitch/low pitch delays).

Ex: I have a patch that has a good "bow" sound, so I place a notch filter to let the bow sound come thru, then I take a patch that has a nice "swelling" sound and again notch filter the smoothness, then blend the two together (on separate tracks of course).

10:00 and 2:00 for the imaging, w/the room ambience (typically a hall reverb) at 8:00 and 4:00, then aux route a delay of the reverb hard left/right pan at 50msec.

Sounds confusing, but works very well for a string quartet sound playing on oak floor reflection [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

..and like the Captain, I play the parts live with a pre-delay attack, unless of course it is a stacato part then I drop the pre-delay and add more of the "bow" track.
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Old 10-24-2002, 10:19 AM
pk_hat pk_hat is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

i think it comes down to the sound source itself. it's true, most of us reach for string patch #___ and just play along. it's often a warm and rich sound but we can all agree that if you want realistic strings, a rom based synth won't cut it. I think some are very good (Roland XV series), but for better strings and other emulations, a sampler fits the bill.

Either way, a good thing to do is to lay down your tracks separately to bring more realism.
ie. have your double bass, cellos, violas and violins on separate tracks, panned and processed individually with a healthy dose of RenVerb and you'll be amazed at how much better it sounds than a combo string patch.

More tedious and requires a bit of thought in placing the instruments in the right key zones but the results are astounding.

For even more realism, a sample library of strings (Garritan) would stomp over anything else, albeit an expensive alternative.

if using Midi for strings, it's good to have your mod wheel assigned to the 'expression' or 'aftertouch' parameter, so that your long sustained notes don't sound so static.
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Old 10-24-2002, 10:19 AM
basschair basschair is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Roy Howell:
This is to those of you who even use strings occasionally...
Most of the keyboardists I've known reach for their own tried and true method to achieve good, realistic sounding strings, for both lush and staccato type strings.
What I've been doing for a while now, is recording Midi strings to Audio, which gives me more control. But, even my Midi source is limited in string sounds, and I'm always looking to improve.
It's understood that nothing can perfectly replace real strings, but I've also heard some excellent substitutes.
So what all's out there now, and what do you engineers and producers do for strings these days?

Thanks, Roy
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Roy

When you listen to a string orchestra, you'll notice that not everyone is in tune, and the vibrato is not always even. That's what gives the string groups a nice, warm, lush sound. When using a sound module (Proteus for me), I layer string samples and modify ADSR times and tunings of each layer slightly to give it a more realistic sound. I usually go through the edit menu and tweak other things as well. Of course, nothing beats having top-notch samples, either ROM or your own samples.

paul
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2002, 10:36 AM
Mr_Seven Mr_Seven is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

Layers. Lots of layers. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2002, 11:02 AM
Roy Howell Roy Howell is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

Great ideas already... I have never layered my strings. PT has brought a whole new way of thinking to me in the first place, in that I had never used a 'mini' session to bounce tracks to import into the MAIN session before. But, I bet with your ideas, I can achieve killer stings now. So THANKS very much... [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 10-24-2002, 11:32 AM
Calvin Calvin is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

Just a thought from my own experiance as a string player. When I mess with strings off of a keyboard. I always try to match the intensity of the vibrato to the intensity of the song. This may sound like a pretty dumb suggestion but it is amazing how much it will add if you just go threw and automate the speed. I don't have pro-tools infront of me so I can't tell you but I would also automate the width of the vibrato if possible. If you do this many times along with adding layers it can help alot. If you really want to get into it, try recording the voices seperately with about half as many cellos as violins and about a quarter as many basses. It would just be a fun project if you have the time on your hands and a couple good individual string sounds.
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Old 10-24-2002, 11:38 AM
J. FO J. FO is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

"when you hear strings, they aren't in tune and their vibratos aren't matching..."
let's just say this, if it was a good chamber group, or orchestra, the strings are in tune with each other, and with the rest of the group. what you are hearing is a difference in the vibratos. so, layering strings is definitely going to help. but, if you're doing an important project, don't overlook your local music union, you'll be suprised at how many classically trained string players love to play "non-traditional" stuff.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2002, 11:53 AM
basschair basschair is offline
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Default Re: Using Strings... suggestions and secrets.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Calvin:
Just a thought from my own experiance as a string player. When I mess with strings off of a keyboard. I always try to match the intensity of the vibrato to the intensity of the song. This may sound like a pretty dumb suggestion but it is amazing how much it will add if you just go threw and automate the speed. I don't have pro-tools infront of me so I can't tell you but I would also automate the width of the vibrato if possible. If you do this many times along with adding layers it can help alot. If you really want to get into it, try recording the voices seperately with about half as many cellos as violins and about a quarter as many basses. It would just be a fun project if you have the time on your hands and a couple good individual string sounds.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent idea, and thank you for bringing it up. Traditionally, vibrato will "match up" to the tempo of the song. So, the tempo of the vibrato will either be the same as the song tempo or will be am even fraction of it.
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