Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by guitardom

Not sure exactly what problems you speak of?? I was using it just fine since day 1 of its release. The only real issue I recall was with the audiosuite handles until it was realized to just set it to 0 in the prefs.

the gui freeze issue that took 6 months to rectify (guitardom, you were all over that thread)http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=310490&page=7...delay compensation bugs and being deprived of aax plugins for months...all of which i have mentioned here time and time again. As I have also said, just because you guys did not experience any problems with your setups, does not make the reported problems non existent. The latest example is the new mbox3 driver release which is unusable and crashing other people's machines. It only causes static at every buffer setting for me, but that doesn't make me doubt that it is causing crashes for other people. It comes down to the rule...you get what you pay for...However it seems in my experience, Avid doesn't comply with this theory...especially for what they have done with this non supported expensive as hell control surface.



http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=341927

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=342455

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by guitardom

I think the difference is that some of us are "loyal" to the point that if we have an issue, we are specific about it like things I have mentioned in this thread and elsewhere. I dont have a general frustration like you and others seem to have. I have not been promised anything I have not received from Avid. They made well known these controllers could be made incompatible YEARS ago. I think it would be right by Avid to spend the time soon to try and get these controllers working, even if by simplistic forms via HUI or something else, but there seems to be a general attitude like everyone has been blindsided by this. If they choose not to and users decide to go elsewhere or keep there support to a minimum, that is their right and good on them for taking a stand. Just keep the anger and frustration towards a specific issues. Assuming to know the specifics of how and why things like this happen only exacerbates the situation into a downward spiral. None of these assumptions are fact, as we do not know.

Exactly.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by louieshowers

the gui freeze issue that took 6 months to rectify (guitardom, you were all over that thread)http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=310490&page=7...delay compensation bugs and being deprived of aax plugins for months...all of which i have mentioned here time and time again. As I have also said, just because you guys did not experience any problems with your setups, does not make the reported problems non existent. The latest example is the new mbox3 driver release which is unusable and crashing other people's machines. It only causes static at every buffer setting for me, but that doesn't make me doubt that it is causing crashes for other people. It comes down to the rule...you get what you pay for...However it seems in my experience, Avid doesn't comply with this theory...especially for what they have done with this non supported expensive as hell control surface.



http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=341927

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=342455

I obviously forgot about that as I did not have any serious issues (possibly minor) with it or I would have been part of all the troubleshooting and scenarios. My posting flurry was toward the end helping others do troubleshooting.

This stuff happens with all software, plugins, and even OS's. Its the nature of the beast. Vista anyone!!

Problems like that freeze always get resolved. Obviously not as fast as we like, but its something that got past test systems and beta testers which says its something odd that is going to be hard to find or they would have found it. I run a removable bay system for my C: drive so I always have other OS's and PT versions ready to go to if I need. Being the early adopter of any software is has its risks, so I always have a backup. But I know with 10, I never was at a point I had to go back to 9. I was floored with the new features finally in 10.

Obviously I have no clue about the mbox stuff. I have never owned one. But anytime there is a driver issue like that, Its about the easiest resolve of all to just roll back. Only 3-4 users posting about it, its obviously an isolated issue that is caused by something unique. We know it will get fixed. Are there any issues you have been left hanging on?

This console situation is unique to these or other issues. This has the potential to cost users tens of thousands to stay current which is very hard to deal with for many people and some sort of effort by Avid to help would mean a lot and help save face for them. This is also a matter of Avid losing large amounts of HDX/HDN sales by users deciding not to update their hardware.

The I/O settings are another issue I had hoped would be resolved with 11. They are a mess and need a major overhaul. The Eleven Rack is in a strange place right now (though pennies in comparison to console costs and setup) There are some issues abound that are frustrating, I just dont see it as its all terrible, I have been ripped off, its all on purpose, and I know how and why, is going to help a situation I am not implying you in particular, just see this attitude a lot around and it has never once helped a thread go anywhere useful.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

The PT integration of software and hardware is second to none, and has been Paris was shelved 15 years ago. And the workflow, in my opinion, is quite good. And of course, it remains the industry standard - no small selling point. It's why I finally broke down and got PT.

But let's be real. That integration of hardware and software has come at a price that stifled development in other areas. The faster than real-time render - the big marketing push for PT11 - has been a feature of most every software based DAW for years and years. Cool Edit Pro did it more than 15 years ago, most others have for over 10 years. The clip-based volume change pales in comparison to Samplitude's object-based editing, it shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with all of the functionality that product offers. Samplitude offers EUCON support, and I think other DAW's do too. And I'm guessing that plugin delay compensation was way more difficult for a hardware system like PT, and was again a reason why other DAWs were so far ahead (and so much better integrated) in that area many years ago.

Also, in my opinion, the time when you need hardware based assistance to get enough processing power to do a mixdown may have passed - especially since most DAWs, like PT, offer some sort of premix bounce feature on a track basis.

Native users have and always will be dragged down by DSP systems should we choose to stay in this world. The DSP developer (Avid) obviously cant redesign this system every 2-3 years to keep up with native DSP and they cant have the native systems surpass the DSP systems, so it turns into a catch .22 But you are correct, it has its down sides!! The next few years will be interesting!

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by guitardom

I obviously forgot about that as I did not have any serious issues (possibly minor) with it or I would have been part of all the troubleshooting and scenarios. My posting flurry was toward the end helping others do troubleshooting.

This stuff happens with all software, plugins, and even OS's. Its the nature of the beast. Vista anyone!!

Problems like that freeze always get resolved. Obviously not as fast as we like, but its something that got past test systems and beta testers which says its something odd that is going to be hard to find or they would have found it. I run a removable bay system for my C: drive so I always have other OS's and PT versions ready to go to if I need. Being the early adopter of any software is has its risks, so I always have a backup. But I know with 10, I never was at a point I had to go back to 9. I was floored with the new features finally in 10.

Obviously I have no clue about the mbox stuff. I have never owned one. But anytime there is a driver issue like that, Its about the easiest resolve of all to just roll back. Only 3-4 users posting about it, its obviously an isolated issue that is caused by something unique. We know it will get fixed. Are there any issues you have been left hanging on?

This console situation is unique to these or other issues. This has the potential to cost users tens of thousands to stay current which is very hard to deal with for many people and some sort of effort by Avid to help would mean a lot and help save face for them. This is also a matter of Avid losing large amounts of HDX/HDN sales by users deciding not to update their hardware.

The I/O settings are another issue I had hoped would be resolved with 11. They are a mess and need a major overhaul. The Eleven Rack is in a strange place right now (though pennies in comparison to console costs and setup) There are some issues abound that are frustrating, I just dont see it as its all terrible, I have been ripped off, its all on purpose, and I know how and why, is going to help a situation I am not implying you in particular, just see this attitude a lot around and it has never once helped a thread go anywhere useful.

You asked and i explained. And for the purpose of this thread my issue is with Avid's relationship and communication with it's customers. It took 6 months to get an update and enjoy 10 like you did. That thread was large too. I assure you that I didn't invent this opinion. There is a reason why people are frustrated and angry and why Avid has been labeled. I don't have anything to gain from these people getting their drivers nor do I suffer personally if they don't. It's just not good (smart) business.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

It's actually not as hard as you think. I think most PT users could pick it up in a few weeks. The hardest part for me is that I do do it all from muscle memory so I constantly forget which program I'm using and just hit the wrong keystroke or use gestures on my trackpad that don't work with Pro Tools yet.

I use Reaper as a rewire host for BFD 2 currently in PT11. I basically took the time to figure it out enough to create a session with BFD 2 and all my rewire settings routed for individual outs. That took some time to figure out!! I now just launch that session, do my tweaking in BFD and never touch anything in Reaper. It just feels terribly foreign. It doesnt matter what program I have open, I have these little twitches like the save shortcut, zooms, etc. that are painful to not have work or just not even related to program I am working on, its just a twitch!!

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by guitardom

I use Reaper as a rewire host for BFD 2 currently in PT11. I basically took the time to figure it out enough to create a session with BFD 2 and all my rewire settings routed for individual outs.

Same here

Originally Posted by guitardom

It just feels terribly foreign!

Same here

[scotsman]

All these arguments show how much we "love" PT but there comes a point financially when the brain rules the heart and says "no more". The controller driver is that point, this is when we stand back and reflect on the overall relationship and realise why? I can stay with PT10 and spend my upgrade thousands on some other studio bits.

We can get the corporate support reasons "idea" but the effect is to save a few thousand dollars but then loose millions in lost sales!! When your strategy looses you money then it is simply wrong, Avid it is in your own interest to drop this controller stance and deliver what your customers will pay you for.

Cheers Scotsman

[Camilo Orozco]

Originally Posted by Shan

I fully concur and agree with Dean's statement above. A controller is a controller. It's age also has nothing to do with it. There is no advancement with solo and mute buttons etc that would deem a modern controller superior or an improvement in performance with one that is 20 years old. An older controller would also not invoke any type of bottleneck in performance. You press a button, it sends out a hex code for pressing it, and another for releasing. Done. Speculation and opinion is one thing, but when one actually has a look, the Control 24 outputs MIDI commands via ethernet. Though it's skeuomorphic appearance makes it look like a mixing console, it's nothing more than a very basic computer terminal.

As far as any communication layer goes, even that is simple in form. I can take an Xbox game controller and make it's 10 buttons and two joysticks control just about anything in Pro Tools. 30 minutes for a compiled executable including testing. 35 minutes at best with a coffee. This estimate is from my own first hand experience. There is no massive R&D or technical breakthroughs needed for a computer terminal like a Control 24 that outputs MIDI commands via ethernet. Those API's, specs, and protocols where all done decades ago. My 30 year old completely unsupported Roland Jupiter 6 works mighty fine with Pro Tools 11 via a hardware MIDI spec that is clockin' 30+ years old now. Funny how that old beast has been EOL'd for decades, yet works great with PT 11.

I've tried to look at this from Avid's side and even in their defense, but always quickly come back. Even from the viewpoint of a business decision, getting the Pro Control/Control 24 software profiles operational would definitely send out a very strong message that all Avid controllers have longevity worth investing in more than any other competitor out there. In my opinion, I can't think of any controller company that wouldn't want that type of message out there to the consumer.

Shane

+1 Great Post!

[Camilo Orozco]

Guys,
Don't forget to vote in the ProTools Feedback community "IdeaScale" to get back to life the PC an Control24 drivers, here is the link:

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Control|24-and-ProControl-drivers-for-Pro-Tools-11/110306-3779