Digi-Give us a "colored" analog mixer option to mix ITB

[boneboy]

Just thought I would throw this out to the DUC and Digi team.

What if Digidesign developed mixer options like how you can chose between dithered or non-dithered mixers that would have various analog console characteristics like what you can do with the Phoenix plugin or Analog Channel by McDsp, etc. It would be great to have an entire mixer that had a bit of third harmonic distortion that would instantly make every track a little fatter. They could even do different "flavor" mixers like the Phoenix or model a Neve or API console etc. but make it more dsp efficient than the plugins.

Digi didn't employ delay compensation for a long time because they claimed it would use too much DSP for most users...we got past that and most of us use it so why not use up a bit more DSP to get some instant juice and color on all the tracks like you would if say you were mixing on an old Neve , etc.

Wanted to start this conversation for more feedback and ideas.

I know guys ( including myself) that are using the Phoenix plugin on as many tracks as possible till their DSP runs out. Since Digi is getting in the biz of doing tape and analog simulator plugins this seems like the next step. A complete analog simulation mixer in Pro Tools could be great if done right.

Looking forward to additional ideas on this. Rail?

[Allbaldo]

I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. How awesome would that be? We could have EMI console emulations from Chandler, Steven Massey would have someting great, and McDsp and Crane Song too. Digi? Is it possible?

[travista00]

this is possible and was talked about at a digidesign user group meeting in los angeles about a year ago. developers also think this would be cool but a lot of work!! only strong demand for this feature would bring it to fruition, i believe. personally, i would love to see it happen. show your support if you want this feature!

[PTUser NYC]

I dunno. I hope someone who knows more about console electronics will come along and either agree with what I'm about to say, or more likely, expand on it, and let me know where I'm wrong. Either way, it furthers everyone's education, so I won't be shy about sticking my neck out here into territory I'm not sure of.

With that disclaimer...

I think that in most consoles (of the Neve and API type at least) the summing is done with a passive network of resistors that have little or no color. The result is a properly summed signal that suffers a good deal of gain loss. Then the summed signal is brought through an amplifier (a summing amp) that brings the level back to line level. I believe that it is this amplifier that is responsible for most of the color in the summing of a board. This can be modelled with an insert (analog or digital) across the master fader, rather than at each summing node.

The other main source of color in large format consoles is found in the input modules at each channel. Here again, plug ins, and source material (like outbaord mic preamps) can do the job.

Therefore, I think that you can already emulate these aspects of a favorite console as well as your tools (analog or digital) permit. I agree that digital emulations rarely (if ever) faithfully replicate the sound of their analog bretheren, but then I wouldn't expect a digi mixer to fare any better.

Also, unless you believe that digidesign will find a way to do this colorizing while using less DSP than the plug ins you've already mentioned, I don't see the benefit of having it built in, rather than as a choice on each channel?

For these reasons, I think that plug ins and analog inserts will already model the sound you're looking for as well as current technology allows, and so having a colored mixer won't really help at all.

Unlike some other online discussions (arguments?) that I've been recently involved in, I must freely admit that I am not well versed in these issues enough to be confident that I am right. I'm open to all forms of correction here, since I will only learn as a result.

[digidesigner]

I like to color my stuff myself, so if digi makes a colored mixer then I hope there will still be a transparent one available as well.

[Touchwood Studios]

It's already available, it's called Analog Channel ..

[sunburst79]

Tie Dye would extremely retro sounding.

[Jeremy Mix3000]

A colored mixer sound cool But....

I think this goes back to the core (no pun intended) of how Digi's software works. Without plug ins Pro Tools is pretty lifeless and bland. But add the pug ins of your choice and PT comes to life. Other DAW software adds such things as Built-in EQ, Compression, and sends on each track. I like the way Digi's software works now. This would be a significant change in philosophy on Digi's part. But with the new 8-Core Mac out now and more cores to come we may see a Dramatic change in the next generation of Pro Tools.

[25ghosts]

i gather that the implementation you are talking about has no edible features... If so, wouldn't it be the same thing if one were to just plug a Phoenix or AC Channel at the main out(s)

If the implementation would feature edible entries then I guess it would mean a lot of DSP power.....

I basically like the idea but if there are to be NO edible entries then I see NO advantage as to just put a distorter on the main outs...like described above... All an analog tape(The real deal) does is "compressing/distorting" the signal before it clips... Building a simulator for that would take months if not years of careful analyzing and would not guarantee success. AC Channel and Phoenix are OK but rather exotic and they dont really sound nothing like my 24 track Otari.

Maybe Digi could just license the technology from McDSP or Crane Song and implement those on every channel... or directly in the 24 bit stereo/Surround Mixer...

Personally I would live to see a "REAL PANNER" instead of something just feeding more energy either right or left.... In real life when a sound source is being perceived right or left - it is not only the volume that is varying but there is also a runtime delay... a sound source generated at 10 o'clock travels faster to the left ear than the right. It would be great if the panner in the mixer would automatically (simple algorithm) compensate for such simple things instead of having to insert a delay every time and pull up the calculator to do the math. waves has a plug doing this but it sounds - well - Un natural....

[PTUser NYC]

Hey 25 Ghosts.

I mean NO disrespect, in fact I'm very impressed with your English. You are obviously more capable than I am in any other language. I thought you might appreciate this correction though - if not, I apologize in advance.

"Edible" means something you can eat. Bacon is edible, and steel is not.

The word I think you're looking for is editable.

Rock on dude.