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  #1  
Old 07-13-2011, 06:28 AM
laki laki is offline
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Default Multichannel Workflow question

Hi all,

Here's the situation. I've got a gameshow that was shot in a studio. All the contestants and host were individually mic'd as well as the audience. A stereo mix was also generated.

The Avid editors grouped the iso tracks along with the stereo mix when editing, but they only monitored the stereo. All the iso's were hidden underneath the stereo clip on the timeline.

What is the best way to get the edited stereo mix as well as the underlying iso's. My plan is to use the stereo mix as much as possible and only go to the iso's to fix edits.

The editors will send me an AAF with linked media. How do they get the iso's to me when the only visible audio on their timeline is the stereo mix.

I'm on PT 9.0.3. is the field recorder match criteria an option?

The studio shoot was 6 hours long, For a 1 hour show. I know that I could get them to send me the complete 6 hour shoot and I could match back using the stereo mix. It just seems a bit excessive. 6 hours x 24+ tracks is huge.

Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2011, 08:02 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Multichannel Workflow question

Ask the editor to "un-hide" the hidden tracks and then AAF the sequence?
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2011, 01:39 PM
laki laki is offline
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Thanks Frank. I asked and was told that it's not that easy (not like in PT). Every Clip has a drop down menu for every grouped channel. So that's at least 24 times per clip to un hide all the regions.

I'm wondering if they consolidated the sequence and the dragged all of the resulting media into the sequence after the edited show. If I could the match back by right clicking on the stereo mix and using the new field recorder function.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:48 AM
simonchase simonchase is offline
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Default Re: Multichannel Workflow question

I have successfully expanded a mix track to all the isos on many occasions. Assuming you have all the relevant media in your session and the metadata has been preserved it should be easy as pie. Select the whole track, right click, Matching field recorder channels, (Wait while it scans the audio), then expand.
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  #5  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:26 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Multichannel Workflow question

Quote:
Originally Posted by laki View Post
Thanks Frank. I asked and was told that it's not that easy (not like in PT). Every Clip has a drop down menu for every grouped channel. So that's at least 24 times per clip to un hide all the regions.

I'm wondering if they consolidated the sequence and the dragged all of the resulting media into the sequence after the edited show. If I could the match back by right clicking on the stereo mix and using the new field recorder function.
I that case use expand tracks or Titan.
You can also match the original BWAVs if the meta-data is consistent.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:42 AM
laki laki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonchase View Post
I have successfully expanded a mix track to all the isos on many occasions. Assuming you have all the relevant media in your session and the metadata has been preserved it should be easy as pie. Select the whole track, right click, Matching field recorder channels, (Wait while it scans the audio), then expand.
Simon this is exactly what I want to do. The missing piece of info is how to get all the relevant media into the AAF without having to manually expand everything in the Avid first.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:42 AM
trevora trevora is offline
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Default Re: Multichannel Workflow question

Don't know if I can be much help (not knowing PT very well) but I do know MC. I also know this question should have been asked before the edit began!

The edit has been cut with line-mix only. To be fair, editing with the isos would involve laying them out on a 24+ track timeline and gets very fiddly once you get going.

Personally, when working on shows like this, I'll put the iso sound on extra tracks where I think the mixer will need it. (Crowd across edits, separate mics where I think they'll need them for an edit etc).

The only way I can think of to then get the same edit (in MC) with the iso tracks in sync would be to manually cut them in. Very laborious. There may be EDL or ALE manipulations that could do it, but I doubt it would be easy.

The field recorder option in PT would make sense - but I doubt the audio files exist as multitracks - I expect they are just iso tracks on VTRs, so I'm not sure how you can present them to PT as field recorded audio to 'conform' (but then, like I say, I don't know PT all that well). This may help.

One possible workaround is for the editor to 'autosequence' all the audio - this will put it on a timeline where sourcetc = timelinetc. Then do an AAF of that sequence. Import that to PT. Now at least you have the source audio.

There may then be ways with virtual katy or conformalyzer to get that sequence to conform to the AAF of the edit.


It might be easier to have a copy of MC to hand with the edit project and media and learn how to get to the bits you need as you need them. It's not that hard and would save trying to copy and reconform a lot of audio you don't need.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:34 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Multichannel Workflow question

Quote:
Originally Posted by laki View Post
Simon this is exactly what I want to do. The missing piece of info is how to get all the relevant media into the AAF without having to manually expand everything in the Avid first.
You don´t pull the missing media in via AAF. You import the original BWAVs and PT will try to match the original to the stereos from the AAF.

This only works if there is meta-data in both files that make sense (TC & ROLL ID is best. If there´s only TC you need to match shoot day by shoot day because PT can´t tell the difference between a file with TC 01:00:00:00 from day one and day 15)

If they used a recorder that did not write any usefull TC (some machines stamp every file with 0 hours) into the files you are pretty much lost. Matching in the AVID is your only option then.

You might want to read the PT field recorder manual for details.

For tricky workflows sometimes Titan is the only solution because is has a lot of smart features to deal with poorly maintained meta-data.

frank.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2011, 06:14 AM
laki laki is offline
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Thanks Trevor and Frank. I will go do some reading. AFAIK, the audio was recorded along with the video to an EVS system and then transferred to the Avid, so the field recorder is actually the EVS. I believe it will be stamped with Time Of Day.

Now off to read some manuals.
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:31 AM
trevora trevora is offline
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Default Re: Multichannel Workflow question

I think the only way to get the audio from the Avid to PT is via AAF. I've never seen a bwav export option... and I don't think there are any multichannel audio export choices (except QT Ref .movs).

As for the metadata - the ISOS will likely have a different Tape name that the MAIN. Coming from EVS every clip is likely to have a different tape name. (Each ISO video source might have up to 8 audio tracks).

You may be able to get the edit house to enter TapeID for all the sources before exporting an AAF - I assume this TapeID would need to be the same for all sources. TC will certainly come across. Whatever you get them to do is not going to be trivial.

EVS could possibly create bwavs via xtaccess - and if the material is still in an EVS format this might be the way to go. It certainly would be a good way to go next time...

But how does Field Recorder do the conform. i.e. here's my AAF with audio where "Tape" = Main & I want to make the same edits (by time of day timecode) to these 4 sources where "Tape" = ISO1, ISO2, ISO3, ISO4? You would almost want an option (assuming all sources where recorded same day with matching TC) to ignore "Tape" altogether...

Do let us know what you discover...
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