Kantos?? Sampletank??? or Mach 5???

[Allan Speers]

Bitheadz Unity looks incredibly promissing. Unfortunately, their manual is as bad as anything I've ever seen.

I spent many days trying to figure out how to get the demo working, with my SSC libraries, and finally gave up.

the problem is that they don't differentiate in the manual between the stand-alone version and the various plugin formats, so you literally never know what info is pertaining to your version. Additionally, Unity does a lot more than just sampled instruments. It also does modelled instruments and several other completely seperate processes. yet, all of these sound sources are routed through the one Application, so the GUI is fairly complex and completely counter-intuitive.

Still, I feel strongly that Unity is probably the best answer currently in existance. Running the factory sounds, in a very basic manner, I found it to be 1000% stable, the real-time latency extremely low, and the playback timing
accyracy absolutely dead-on, even with weveral tracks playing at once.

However, I have currently given up on learning the thing. If the Bitheadz guys manage to write a manual that actually makes sense I will be very excited to dive back in.


I'm trying Kontakt at the moment. It's fairly easy to understand, but indeed there are stability issues. Plus, it doesn't have some of Unity's coolest features. PLUS, it's from Native Instruments, who have never given a flyinf fig about Mac users, let alone Protoolers.

But things change......

The whole situation is a mess.

[fantasongsmusic]

Don't buy SampleTank. It's extremely buggy, it routinely fails to open almost all of my SampleCell banks & instruments (I have an extensive sample library with literally thousands of SampleCell banks and SampleTank cannot open hardly any of them).

That's the first I have heard bad new about Sampletank. I use 2XL on OSX with PT 6.1.2 and Logic 6.3.1 and it operates flawlessly.
In fact it is what I used to replace Soft Samplecell. It imports my library just fine.

[soundeziner]

Regarding Mach 5

I run it in PT 5 in OS9 and PT 6 in OS 10 all with no glitches

Actually the LFO's in Mac TDM/RTAS version will not sync to tempo though the effects parameters will. That is really my only M5 complaint. Translation of my SCII stuff went fairly well too. Give it another 6 months and we'll be talking about a whole nother set of software.

[Disco_Doctor]

Squidz,

I stand by my comments 100%. I said "some" of the sounds are good, which they are, but many are not, and that is a fact. Also, if you are one of the people doing the sound design, then I would like to comment to you directly that this is the first sampler/sample library I have ever purchased that contained dozens of sounds that are completely out of tune, and therefore extremely difficult to use. Whenever I pull up a SampleTank patch, I check it on the tuner first and usually end up having to dial it in to pitch by as much as a quarter to half semitone. And even then, I may get the patch to be in tune for the root of the key, but notes up and down the scale may be off by as much as 10-15 cents.

The Samplecell importing in Sampletank is extremely buggy and seriously flawed. For a working professional who needs his libraries to just open up and go, Sampletank is not the solution -- it's a joke. Period. I have spent hours on the phone with IK tech support discussing the issues I have experienced. I am not making these criticisms lightly or "dissing" a product that I have no experience with. I use Sampletank routinely, but just not for what I originally purchased it for and what it was marketed as being a solution for: opening my huge library of Samplecell banks.

****** IMPORTANT ******

Apparently Bitheadz has gone out of business, so buyer beware. I've already seen posts from people who are stuck with new software that they can't get authorizations for.

[Squidz]

Disco, it's not a "fact" it's your opinion of which you are entitled. I still think you are off the mark. Most of the sounds in SampleTank 2 XL are highly usable. Some sounds are better than others but overall there is no other product that offers this much variety for this price. As to the comment about "out of tune", some instrument's tuning can be naturally not exact to A440 such as beating string ensembles or ethnic instruments etc. Also what tuners show is not always accurate either. I wish it was so they could be used more reliably. But, very often one has to use a combination of tuners and your ears. Meanwhile, which sounds in particular are out of tune? Out of 1,500 sounds I doubt there are really that many that can be considered out of tune or I'd have heard about this more from users. There are thousands of happy users. I'd hate to see someone read your posts and take your advice if it really is a good solution for them.

Now, there were some bugs particularly with SampleCell importing that have been fixed. I can understand the frustration one may have had during that time. This can happen with software in general as well all know. Right now it reads SampleCell pretty darn good. I just transferred a bunch of stuff from SampleCell myself without a problem. The bank reading however is very basic and unfortunately it won't just bring your banks over seemlessly. It's not hard to whip up some great bank tweaks of your own and saving them back as Combis in ST2 though. In fact, it's a very effient way to work.

Look. SampleCell is gone. No OSX support. SampleTank 2 is one way to get your SampleCell sounds into OSX at least. It's also a way to give those sounds new life with the 30+ DSP effects built into SampleTank 2 (including $800 worth of modeling plug-ins such as AmpliTube and T-Racks fx in there) plus Stretch and other unique features. It has a filter that was much more powerful than SampleCell's as well.

On the otherhand, I agree that it is not optimal for building your own multisamples like SampleCell was. Man, SampleCell was one of the best tools for doing that too. Believe me, I am sad it's not around too. My company was one of the few companies who did native SoftSampleCell libraries that were even given away by Digidesign for people who purchase SoftSampleCell for a while (that was OmniSoundz).

Anyway, it sounds like you had a bad experience and are venting. But, it's not realistic that it could be at the extreme that you mention or like I said it would not be favored so much by professional musicians or winning awards like Key Buys etc. It is one of the top selling plug-ins at chain stores like Guitar Center. Why? Because it's how you describe? Of course not. It's not perfect, don't get me wrong. But, it's a pretty awesome deal for sounds, software and built-in effects! It's one of the few all around workstation work-horse instrument plug-ins you can get!

By the way... Disco sucks. (just kidding!)

[Disco_Doctor]

...As to the comment about "out of tune", some instrument's tuning can be naturally not exact to A440 such as beating string ensembles or ethnic instruments etc. Also what tuners show is not always accurate either. I wish it was so they could be used more reliably. But, very often one has to use a combination of tuners and your ears.

Thanks for that info. It never occured to my to use my ears. (insert sarcasm).

Meanwhile, which sounds in particular are out of tune? Out of 1,500 sounds I doubt there are really that many that can be considered out of tune or I'd have heard about this more from users.

I talked to IK tech support about this -- they said it's yet another bug with SampleTank that will be addressed in yet another upcoming update. Many of the B3, bass, and string patches come up out of tune when you load the patch. And yes, I do use my ears as well as my tuner. Thank you very much.

There are thousands of happy users. I'd hate to see someone read your posts and take your advice if it really is a good solution for them.

I'm sorry that you would hate that. Nevertheless, I urge people not to buy it.

Now, there were some bugs particularly with SampleCell importing that have been fixed.

Yes, there were "some" bugs -- rendering the SC import feature completely useless. Now there are still "some more" bugs, rendering that feature only partially useless.

I can understand the frustration one may have had during that time. This can happen with software in general as well all know. Right now it reads SampleCell pretty darn good.

No, it doesn't. You say it reads SC "pretty darn good", but then you say in the same breath...

The bank reading however is very basic and unfortunately it won't just bring your banks over seemlessly.

So, which is it? "Pretty darn good" or "won't bring your banks over seamlessly"?

It's not hard to whip up some great bank tweaks of your own and saving them back as Combis in ST2 though. In fact, it's a very effient way to work.

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Could you explain further? How do I whip up great bank tweaks of my own if I can't get my original banks open in the first place? What if I already have my banks programmed exactly the way I want them? Why then, would I want to "tweak" them?

Anyway, it sounds like you had a bad experience and are venting.

No, I'm not "venting". I'm warning fellow musicians and engineers that SampleTank is not a very good product based on my extensive use of the product.

But, it's not realistic that it could be at the extreme that you mention or like I said it would not be favored so much by professional musicians or winning awards like Key Buys etc. It is one of the top selling plug-ins at chain stores like Guitar Center. Why?

Why indeed? Because the advertising is done well. Because people still get excited about what the product promises and naively expect software to work as advertised. Myself as an example: I bought it because it was promoted by Digidesign as the ultimate solution for transfering SampleCell banks. IK offered a crossgrade discount to SC users, which Digidesign promoted. When I purchased it, I believe it was at version 2.01 -- and at that time SampleTank was completely incapable of opening any SampleCell instruments or banks. Attempting to do so crashed Pro Tools, or the operation simply failed to complete. Since that time -- which was about 5-6 months ago I think, some improvements have been made, but it still does not function as advertised. SampleTank, as you have stated in your own words, does not "seamlessly" open SampleCell banks. "Seamlessly" is your way of saying the same thing I am saying -- it doesn't work. Why don't you just make it work?

But, it's a pretty awesome deal for sounds, software and built-in effects! It's one of the few all around workstation work-horse instrument plug-ins you can get!

I agree that the plugin is not completely useless. It just doesn't do what it was advertised to do, and what it does do is mediocre. In the context of this thread, SampleTank is not a good choice. Obviously you have a vested interest in the success of this product, so you aren't going to agree with me that people should not buy it. People reading this thread will understand that.

I just wish IK would fix the bugs and make the product work as advertised. All I want it to do is what it IK advertises: open my SampleCell banks and instruments.

By the way... Disco sucks. (just kidding!)

Hence the irony of my screen name.

[Squidz]

Boy, your whole disposition is so negative and dramatic. While you continue to tell people what you want, just understand that I and other people who think you are off the mark in some comments will speak up to balance that's all.

Meanwhile, your thoughts on the subject of why people buy it are mere guesses while I have the actual information available to me from dealers, customers, pro artists, studios, composers... You can only think about it in terms of your particular experience and expectations and "assume" everyone is like you. For one thing, not everyone bought it to replace their SampleCell. Now, apart from temporary bugs that can occur with any piece of software, at the latest rev I imported the entire Miroslav Vitous orchestra instruments in SampleCell to SampleTank 2. It came over quite well! So, as a previous SampleCell user I could bring over the instruments into SampleTank 2 seemlessly without a hitch. Now I can do all kinds of things layering instruments, running them through fx, using new more complex filters etc. and save that back as a combi preset.


On reading the banks... Yes, it reads the instruments of the banks but in a very basic way. I agree that it would be better if it read all of the bank parameters or perhaps it should just not even read banks (although some people would appreciate having the instruments of the banks at least). After you bring up the instruments of that bank any tweaks at that point need to be made by you. I know that isn't ideal. Personally I am happy it reads SampleCell instruments as well as it does. I'd like to see improvements in the bank reading as well though so we'll see what happens there.

SampleTank 2 is not a replacement for all the ways in which you could work with SampleCell such as mapping and certain visual representations. SampleTank 2 was not designed to BE the replacement to SampleCell. If anything, perhaps UNITY is more along those lines. But, UNITY does not sound or work like SampleTank 2 does. I said it brought over the SC instruments seemlessly but I did not say it was a seemless replacement as if you STILL had SampleCell.

When a product like SampleCell is discontinued there are going to be some compromises when moving forward. One of those is that you may have to rely on importing the format into another sample player. SampleTank 2 is 1 option and for many it will open up a lot of creativity way beyond just the need to play SC libraries. For others they may prefer to experiment with Mach 5 or Kontakt or Unity or a Translation program to see how their SampleCell instruments end up like there (and bank reading... if that software even provides it at all).

It sounds to me like you in particular would be better off with something else because your appreciation for other important features in ST2 XL is so low.

8 discs of sounds? Maybe means nothing to you, but sure means a lot to people considering the cost per disc.

30+ DSP effects including modeled amps, cabinets, tube outboard gear taken from over $800 worth of plug-ins (including AmpliTube which has won 10 different awards) included. Means nothing to you but a lot of people like when quality fx are a part of the sound... maybe a wah wah guitar or a phased Rhodes or a guitar sound through an amp or an organ distorting through one etc.

Stretch and other pitch/time tools, multi-mode/multi-pole filter, easy editing and layering, fast loading, built-in search engine for your sounds... these are all features that a lot of people REALLY appreciate and aren't just focusing on why they can't use it exactly as if it was SampleCell reincarnated. It's a music making solution that is great for most musicians. That's a fact proven by countless emails, testimonies plus awards, artist endorsements (not paid for... Herbie Hancock or Rick Wakeman don't have to call to say how much they love it).

Hopefully people read this and think: Does the product look like it will suit their musical needs? Does anyone want a workstation module for their ProTools? You guys even get a discounted upgrade if you bought ProTools recently. Compare $300 to the price of a keyboard workstation like a Triton or Motif. Compare 4.5 gigs of sounds to 100 megs of sample ROM... Either one appreciates this stuff and sees the value or doesn't. I can only try to bring up these points to balance someone else just saying "don't get it" when they are really not considering why many people might want to get it AND be quite happy with it.

[fantasongsmusic]

[QUOTE]

I just wish IK would fix the bugs and make the product work as advertised. All I want it to do is what it IK advertises: open my SampleCell banks and instruments.







Choose "Samples" from the import menu and work with your SCII sample folders not the instrument folders.

[Squidz]

Right now with SampleTank 2 you can load any of the 1,500 included sounds (plus additional free sounds I've been doing for XL users) as well as bring in SampleCell or Akai instruments or load a ton of native ST format libraries that companies like mine have put a lot of effort into. It's a great workhorse sound module plug-in.