Need help recording Screaming / yelling vocals.. . please help!!

[Erik Braund]

Hello there everyone..
Right now i am engineering my band's album. Everything is going great.. drums sounds are good (in my opinion [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] ), guitars & bass are OK.. but I am having a problem with vocals.

We are kind of a grungy nirvana style band with alot of clean quiet verses and loud yelling choruses. Tracking the vocals for the verses has been no problem, but when it comes to tracking the yelling, i am at a dead end. All I can do is turn back the gain on the preamp so the singer doesnt distort (combined with having him back away from the mic), but that drops my overall volume of the track tremendously, and when it comes to the distortion part, it just lacks balls!

I am not sure if anyone is familiar with Nirvana's Lithium, but that chorus is strictly "yeah yeah yeah" being yelled at the top of his lungs, but it is POWERFUL!!

If anyone could please please offer me some pointers, i would realllly appreciate it.

If it helps, here is the gear i Have to work with..

Mics

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shure KSM 44
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Senn 421's
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shure SM81's
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">57's / 58's
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">beta 52's
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">beta 98's

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Preamps

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DBX 786 (the blue 2 channel one)
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2 x DBX 586 2 channel
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dbx 386 2 channel pre

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been tracking vocals with the KSM 44 + pop filter through the DBX 786, into the 001 into a G4. I have most the common plugins (waves, bomb factory, as well as others).
Thanks in advance!!
Erik Braund

[Kickin.da.speaker]

I have recorded Lithium (not Nirvana, of course [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] ), and I never touched the gain. It's all in the singer's mic technique. You can come real close for the intimate passages, and back up a foot or two or three for the yelling.

If that still doesn't do it, then inserting a compressor before the A/D might help.

[Erik Braund]

Hey Kickin, thanks for the reply. Well, i am not by any means a singer, and the vocalist hasn't done much recording. We have been trying the moving away from the mix technique during the louder parts..

You say a compressor before the a/d.. i take it a plugin compressor isnt what i am looking for? I am looking to invest in a decent compressor to compliment the pre's.. have any suggestions? ANy help is appreciated! Thanks..
Erik

[Kickin.da.speaker]

One of the best bang for the buck is the famous RNC1773, at http://www.fmraudio.com/

However, I dont' use any hardware compressor. I just back off the gain until the loudest part is not distorting, and then sing the whole song. Then I add a plug-in compressor, that attenuates the yelling parts and let me bring out the verses. You can also use automation to help.

Also, don't hesitate to have a verse that has an overall level slightly lower than the chorus. That way, when the chorus comes in, you can have the level of the vocals go up a little bit. So, instead of having the real sound (extremly quiet, and extremly loud), or a compressed sound (same level throughout, making the chorus sound weak), you can have a moderately compressed vocal track that still bursts out for the chorus.

Was that clear? [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Erik Braund]

Thanks David! actually i THINK i got most of it [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

I just did a search on what compressors people recomended and came up with the presonus acp22 and the RNC one... except on harmony central people were upset with the way the rnc handled low end, but some love the whole thing!

Any compressor setting suggestions? I have never used a compressor before.. have been recording the last yea without them, but have hit this wall that is upsetting me!

I have alot of plugin comps. Waves, rennasance, bombfactory, and like 4 others. If ya feel like repling once more, thanks!

thanks again, you have shed some light on this for me! erik

[Dean G]

David has it exactly right.

The great thing about a good outboard compresser is (should be) the way it can make the quiet vocal sound close and intimate and let the loud vocal cut like a knife, yet not overpowering the music (making the music sound weak [not loud]). What changes the most is the tone. Of course mic and preamp play an equally important role. Sort of airy then saturated. And not backing off the mic is part of that difference, hearing the mic and preamp become stressed. Nice analog sounds.

Not sure a plugin can do all that at once, but that's not the idea. Some things are better when real.

Not that this is a helpful post...Oh yea, just go to the music store and yell into some compressers, and look for the one that colors the sound some, or a lot. Clean compressors are Digirack.

Old Timer [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Kickin.da.speaker]

This is the most helpful compression resource I've found on the net:

http://www.waves.com/htmls/service/t...icks/hutch.htm

[beau]

what board are you using?

i record alot of hard vocals, and sometimes it sounds cool to clip the pres a little, and add compression during tracking like they all said.

the ksm44 should do quite well.

also, try not backing off the mic so much, to get more throat and rasp out of it.

email me if you want some samples.

hope this helps,

beau

[murph16]

Just a suggestion...

If you're not already doing it, you should use a separate track for the choruses and track them on their own...
Your SM 57 or 58 might be a good choice for the vocals...loud, screaming vocals can be real difficult with a sensitive condenser mic like the KSM44! And since you have such nice preamps, you can get a nice rock sound out of the dynamic Shures.
It wouldn't be against any rules to use the KSM44 on the verses and a 57 or 58 on the chorus, either. If backing off of the mic is making you lose some character, try doubling the chorus. It could be a nice touch to the song, from how you described it.
As for comp settings...if you are using the same mic and pre for both the verse and chorus, and you're at 2:1 or 2.5:1 ratio for the verse, that should go up to about 3:1 or 4:1 for the screaming...
Plus, since it's such a stronger level...bring the threshold up (closer to 0) and give it a faster attack. There isn't any "stock" comp setting for vocals...depends on what and who you are working with. But I would say from the verse to the chorus you should be bringing the threshold up, bit more ratio, and faster attack. If the attack is too fast, or the threshold's too low, you'll hear it clipping...then adjust accordingly.

Your singer's mic technique is going to be the most important factor. Give him a nice hot signal in his headphones so he can really hear what the proximity is doing...

Your plug-in supply will help a whole bunch when you get to mixing. The Waves RComp will really help to get some punch back in if the chorus sounds thin. You just really want to "even out" the levels with the outboard compressor...

Good luck!
[img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Trash Man]

Yeah try the 57.....

I read in Tape Op, Brendan O'brien (producer RATM, Pearl Jam etc.) Recorded a ton of vocals for the first RATM album w/ the shure sm 57. Just make sure your going into a decent Mic pre to make it nice....Try it and see what happens.....

Trash Man