Convince Me That 5.1 Surround Is A Benefit

[SonOfSmawg]

PeeTee,
I recently went for a Nuendo demo at Guitar Center in Las Vegas. They had it
playing back in surround, and I found it very undesirable. I asked them to put it into
stereo for the demo.
However, you must realize that millions of people have surround systems in their
homes, and this time it's not going away like
'quaraphonic sound' did back in the 70s.
'Quad' never really caught-on, but surround
is here to stay. If anything, it'll grow and
advance. If you're going to keep up with the times, and you plan to do professional recording, you'll eventually have to learn to
mix in surround. That's the reality of it.

------------------
Come and explore the future of recorded music.
recording.org

[AUDIOSFX]

PeeTee....

Having a few years of discrete multi-channel experience for music and film, I have come to this conclusion.. Not everything benefis from multi-channel.. It is up to the engineer/sound designer/composer etc.. to determine this path. 5.1 is not the end of multi-channel. (10.2 - 7.1) there are many varities out there...

The reality is our ears are capable of dicerning sounds from above ,below ,in front, in back and in essence around our point of view. Hence the development of multi-channel.

Music can sound way cool in multi channel(mc)
And you do not have to use it literally. say you mixed in stereo and used the surrounds to enhance the environment with a little verb etc..(very lttle) it actually sounds good. Drum circles discrete sound great....
But Lead vocals, kick and snare in center sound like ass..
Be imaginative..(mc) is not a bad thing and can give a much broader palette to work from.

Not to mention a very popular standard..

Will S.
AUDIOSFX

[eddy boy]

Why?....why do we need to convince you on anything. If you don't like then stay stereo. I Do agree that this whole 5.1 thing for music is just another way for record companies to try to sqeeze some more bucks from the consumer. my opinion is that 5.1 Audio or DVD A will fail. I have no desire to feel my music surround me. It's gonna bust. because you have to be in such a confined area to fully benefeit from the surround. I'l take my little bookshelf stereo playing cool tunes as i work on my car, over sitting in my home theatre any day. if anything it will be a very specialized segment of the market for people who are into that audiophile thing...as well as people who will have 5.1 systems in thee car. but for the masses...nay. As for TV and Film...you must be high man! Surround is the only way to go. could you imagine the opening shot of Star Wars (any of them)
with out surround! dude its the 21st century and the sound is all aound us.
5.1 for video and film Yes please!
5.1 for audio........next!

[This message has been edited by eddy boy (edited January 11, 2001).]

[PeeTee]

maxcap:
Please list me some direct benefits of 5.1 audio, other then esoteric or experimental applications.

eddy boy:
Yes. I can imagine Star Wars without 5.1. And, funny you should mention, Star Wars was but one of many that was remixed to 5.1 for the Special Editions that I completely disliked. The 5.1 sound of the Alderaan debris flying past, the laser battle in the detention centre...all distracted from the scene. (Not to mention the 5.1 echo FX in the light-bridge/chasm scene.) Rubbish!

21st century, eh? The picture is still in 2D. I am watching a flat screen with 2D characters. There is nobody behind me to "immerse" myself in the sound.

I'm just glad to see that I'm not the only one that doesn't believe the hype. 5.1 is big hype.

Regards,
Gary

[This message has been edited by PeeTee (edited January 11, 2001).]

[ProFool]

Like it or not, surround is hot right now. Maybe it will stand the test of time, or maybe something will come along and kick its ass. The important thing is that ProTools, in adopting this functionality, is letting creative artists fully explore this new medium.

[drBill]

I'm in the process of mixing in 7.2 (I started 5.1 and then bumped it up - front/rear subs and 2 mid/side speakers) for a kinda cirque type show in Tokyo. It is very tribal with drums and percussion surrounding all around you. The actual venue will actually have 24 discrete speakers with an LCS matrix system to "move" stuff around the theater.

I gotta tell you, this is the first time I have really had a chance to do some cool things with 5.1 (or surround in general), and if the music calls for it - as this did (kinda being out in the jungle with tribal drummers and percussionists surrounding you) - it is EXTREMELY cool. It almost made me weep. I got so excietd I wanted to call up all my friends and have them come over and check it out. After being in this biz long before Digi was an just idea located in somebody's garage, anything that makes me feel like that is AOK in my opinion.

If it doesn't work for you type of music, fine, but it isn't going away. After you experience an artful surround mix you're going to want it in your house. The only problem is talking your wife into where to put the sub and 3 extra speakers!

drBill

[Felix]

PeeTee,
i'm with you on the music side. i guess for experimental stuff or electronica, 5.1 could be really interesting. but for everyday listening to well-recorded songs, whats the vital use in 5.1? a real nice stereo system provides plenty of excellent imaging all around to be enjoyed for serious listeners. however, if there's people who want it, and people who want to mix with it, then power to you. just count me out, for now. there's really only a handful of the relative population who can afford a true 5.1 home system these days. most music is listened to without even a decent stereo perspective anyways. how would a 5.1 mix translate on radio broadcasts?
for MOVIES, its pretty cool if you have the space in your home and the budget to buy a worthy High Definition TV. otherwise, its kind of silly. for me, there's still nothing quite like a huge movie theater screen with all the surround fixins.
i'm not opposed to it. i'm even looking forward to learning it some day... perhaps. i just don't think its that special.

[QuikDraw]

The real smart scientist types are working on this stuff all the time, and some day they will probably figure it out once and for all. You see, we only have two ears! And with those two ears we can determine the direction of sound. It makes sence that it should only take two transducers (speakers) to transmit this same information. They call it psycho-acoustics. Right now it's gimiky crap, but they'll eventually make it work.

Isn't stereo troublesome enough? I mean, we all know that there's only one "sweet spot" in any listening environment where the mix sounds perfect positionally and spectrally. Adding more speakers would seem to even more tightly focus that sweet spot. Sure, it'll sound "good" from many positions. But it'll only sound the way the mix engineer intended it to sound from one small area, with your head facing in a specific direction at a specific height.

But on to the point of this thread... Is 5.1 Surround a benefit? Well, if you're making money reproducing audio then I think any format known to the public or to the professionals producing content for the public would be a benefit. I mean, if a client were to come in and ask for a 5.1 mix, wouldn't it be best to accept the job and take his money? Or would we rather turn jobs away because we don't like the format? I don't think so. The more formats you can mix to the better! The customer is always right (as long as they're paying).

Mike

[uno1234]

I want to know if I can use the mp3 export option when bouncing a 5.1 mix to disc....

:O

Fact is, the future of audio in music is mp3, whether you like it or not (I don't).




[This message has been edited by uno1234 (edited January 12, 2001).]

[PeeTee]

I really can't see the benefit of using 5.1 surround to mix. I can't see how 5.1 sound can improve a musical recording (I don't want to 'feel' like I'm in the middle of the orchestra) or TV/film that is being presented on a 2D flat screen. My experiences so far, going to the threatre and catching the latest movie, have been very negative; audio sfx and whatnot happening behind my head. It all sounded so fake! I certainly don't want to listen to my favourite band and have it seem as though I am sitting between the drum kit and the lead singer.

What other uses are there for 5.1 other then a marketing gimmick?

Somebody, please convince me that 5.1 is actually a good thing and useable!

How hot did QSound ever become?

Regards,
Gary
P.S. Anybody here remember "Holophonics?"