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  #1  
Old 09-14-2005, 01:01 PM
rtcstudio rtcstudio is offline
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Default PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

Simple example:

A typical song, say 40 tracks. One lead singer. You do lead vocal sessions using alternate playlists for different takes. You get up to around 10 or 15 playlists.

You comp the vocal on a new playlist.

You mix the song. In the mix you decide to edit out half the intro, and the 2nd chorus.

Now the lead vocalist decides they don't like the vocal on the bridge and wants an alternate comp. ZING! none of the underlying playlists are in sync now because they still have the whole intro and the 2nd chorus in them.

That's a simple example. Now imagine there are 4 singers on each song, each doing different sessions, with up to 20 vocal takes for each singer.

Can't we just have a preference to make song edits APPLY to all playlists AND hidden tracks ('cause hidden tracks don't get edited either in this scenario)???

It's not practical to apply all the playlists to actual audio tracks before editing. The only workaround I have is to go back to an earlier, unedited session, do the re-comp, import session data (making sure I bring a reference track like click along with the new vocal track), and then line the new comp up with the edited session.

This seems like a LONG overdue preference. I called ProAxxes and made the same request. The guy I talked to doesn't think it's in PT7 either.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2005, 02:34 PM
Tin Drum Tin Drum is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

This request has come up in the past and every time I see it I need to chime in with my support. Playlists are one of the most useful and best implemented features of ProTools (and have been for quite some time) but a little further tweaking would make a HUGE difference.

Personally, I'd like to see this request to make edits apply to all playlists (not just the "top" one) implemented with a new "special" time-cutting tool... a new tool seems to be a safer option than setting a preference, and a new tool could easily offer a few modes to allow a user to choose if they want to be cutting inactive and/or hidden tracks along with visible/active tracks.

And while we're on the subject of playlists, I'd really love to see a key-command to quickly scroll through playlists on selected/highlighted tracks, so we don't always have to use the mouse to select takes when comping or to create new playlists while tracking.

Anyway, I've submitted these requests on Digi's official feature-request page and I suggest that others do the same if you'd like to see new playlist features implemented soon.

- Max @ tin drum recordings
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:23 PM
sleadley sleadley is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

I agree that playlists are one of the best feature of Pro Tools, one that easily sets it apart from the rest of the pack. I would also like to see a way to delete Playlists when you are in grouped mode, so that it is easy to delete all the playlists associated with, say take 1. At the moment when you go to the Delete unused playlists you just get a list of all the playlists which is a PITA to deal with. Try deleting take 1 say on a 48 Track Orchestral record that has 10 takes, it aint easy. Other than that Grouped playlist now rock!
Simon L.
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Old 09-15-2005, 01:30 AM
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crizdee crizdee is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

Hi,

I disagree,working with playlists is way too flaky and causes too many problems!

I simply record on 1 track and immediately pull the file down to a playback track, or if i'm in loop record and have several playlists, then i'll select them all after recording from the audio regions list and place them on tracks in the edit window. With both these ways it is easy to see what you are working on and where everything is. and then there are no horrible surprises later on!!!!

By having all the takes visible on the screen makes it much easier for me, the artist the writer the producer and anyone else who is involved in making decisions to see and get involved in the creation process. simply mute or unmute the regions to comp your takes! its that easy? no brain deadening!! and no lost out of line takes.

Chris
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2005, 09:34 AM
rtcstudio rtcstudio is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

Quote:
Hi,

I disagree,working with playlists is way too flaky and causes too many problems!

I simply record on 1 track and immediately pull the file down to a playback track, or if i'm in loop record and have several playlists, then i'll select them all after recording from the audio regions list and place them on tracks in the edit window. With both these ways it is easy to see what you are working on and where everything is. and then there are no horrible surprises later on!!!!

By having all the takes visible on the screen makes it much easier for me, the artist the writer the producer and anyone else who is involved in making decisions to see and get involved in the creation process. simply mute or unmute the regions to comp your takes! its that easy? no brain deadening!! and no lost out of line takes.

Chris
I have worked this way in the past, and it's one work-around, and a valid way to work.

But the project I'm on now has 4 singer/artists that sing on every song. It's live, so I have the entire show in one long session. With strings, brass, key od's, guitar od's, perc od's, choir od's I'm already up to 90 something tracks. It is just very cumbersome to add the amount of tracks I need to do vocals with four people. One of the singers is not that strong, and on some songs I have 40 playlists for him (not entire takes, but for different sections of the song). Pro Tools doesn't have enough voices for me to work with separate audio tracks for this group of artists.

There needs to be a way to let the user decide that "ALL" edits affect BOTH underlying playlists AND hidden tracks. I know there's a real reason that they did it this way (I was told Post guys like it this way), but for me, I can't imagine anyone not wanting all their audio to follow/track/stay in sync with the whole session, no matter what you do.

I hope a lot of folks post and also call to request this preference. It's long overdue.
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2005, 03:28 PM
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AINSLIE AINSLIE is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

I Diagree ... esp in grouped track situations. Imagine trying to use your method when comping from 4 drum takes. I frequently have 12-16 tracks recording a kit. I ain't gonna lay those on different sets of tracks and drage those groups around. Playlist groups are awesome. But I do agree that the option to apply edits thru all playlists should be allowed - ESP when editing all tracks in a session.

Which brings up another point ... I would like the option to have hidden tracks included in global editing. It annoys me when I have trimmed a multitrack song to find a hidden track that was not trimmed, shuffled, cut or whatever ...


Ainslie

Quote:
Hi,

I disagree,working with playlists is way too flaky and causes too many problems!

I simply record on 1 track and immediately pull the file down to a playback track, or if i'm in loop record and have several playlists, then i'll select them all after recording from the audio regions list and place them on tracks in the edit window. With both these ways it is easy to see what you are working on and where everything is. and then there are no horrible surprises later on!!!!

By having all the takes visible on the screen makes it much easier for me, the artist the writer the producer and anyone else who is involved in making decisions to see and get involved in the creation process. simply mute or unmute the regions to comp your takes! its that easy? no brain deadening!! and no lost out of line takes.

Chris
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  #7  
Old 09-15-2005, 07:48 PM
rtcstudio rtcstudio is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

Quote:

There needs to be a way to let the user decide that "ALL" edits affect BOTH underlying playlists AND hidden tracks.
Yes, the point was already brought up, but it can't be brought up enough. Let us apply "ALL" or global edits to both ALL playlists and ALL hidden tracks. We want our audio to stay together, ready to be used at any moment.

I think it's going to take people calling in feature requests to tech support/ProAxxess. I'm not sure just posting here will be enough. Yesterday was my third time to bring this up on the phone to a Tech at Digi.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2005, 09:45 PM
matt_in_sj matt_in_sj is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

I have to chime in and heartily agree with this request. If you're only doing 4 takes of something, great, it's not a big deal to put all your takes on separate visible audio tracks & pick and choose. But I'm in a similar situation -- working with singers & instrumentalists who need (sometimes) upwards of 30+ takes, pickups, and bits of audio that all need to be boiled down into one comp. There is simply no way I'm going to stretch those out into their own separate audio tracks if I decide I need to add or subtract a verse from the session. As a result, the playlists simply get out of sync and I have no way to keep them together. I've had to wait until I've got the comps built to trim out the stuff we've decided not to use, but that isn't always practical...and forget trying to make what are otherwise minor tweaks once you've taken time out of the session -- you're going to be all over the barn.

Cheers,
Matt
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Old 09-16-2005, 10:41 PM
jeremyroberts jeremyroberts is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

Quote:
Pro Tools doesn't have enough voices for me to work with separate audio tracks for this group of artists.
Try turning off dynamic voice allocation for these tracks, and manually assign the same voice to all tracks that will eventually be comped together. The top-most un-muted region will steal the voice. That's a trick that goes back to the 4-track days...
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2005, 02:45 PM
rtcstudio rtcstudio is offline
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Default Re: PLEASE - A preference for editing playlists

Quote:
Try turning off dynamic voice allocation for these tracks, and manually assign the same voice to all tracks that will eventually be comped together. The top-most un-muted region will steal the voice. That's a trick that goes back to the 4-track days...
Yes, of course, thanks. But this is a work-around for something that is long overdue to be implemented into Pro Tools. A preference to make "ALL" or global edits affect ALL playlists and ALL hidden tracks.

Besides, can you imagine how long it would take me to create 40 additional audio tracks, copy and paste EACH playlist one at a time to those tracks, and THEN go into the voice allocation and reassign all those guys (perhaps you could group them and reassign)? And that's just for one of my singers, not all four.

And it's especially not something you can do quickly enough to keep the flow of a session going if the artist wants to try something immediately. I can try an edit on the song using his/her top most vocal take, all the while knowing that I'm destroying the time base of all the underlying playlists on that track, and ANY other tracks that have alternate playlists. I have to make notes on A PIECE OF PAPER letting me know what bars I cut out, etc.

I think in most other software, this would be called a bug. Something that needs to be fixed. But for some reason, Digi says some people like this the way it is.

It's time for a preference. This is basic editing on a DAW. Let me keep all my audio in sync no matter how I slice it!
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