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  #1  
Old 09-12-2023, 06:59 PM
[email protected] markjh10@icloud.com is offline
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Default Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Hello. Although there has been an older thread on this subject, I'd appreciate up-to-date information based on current AVID software, firmware & computer OS (as of Sept 12, 2023).

After 20 months of intermittent but persistent system crashes, kernel panics, logic controller failures, interface disconnects & Thunderbolt 3 SSD external storage disappearances while using a competitor's hardware/DAW, I'm starting over and re-tooling my studio.

I'm planning the re-start with the following:

Interface: AVID Pro Tools | Carbon and Carbon Pre
DAW: AVID Pro Tools
MIDI Interface | Patchbay: iConnectivity mioXL
Computer: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Max, 64 GB memory, 8 TB internal SSD, 8 TB external Thunderbolt 3 SSD (Glyph Atom PRO Portable Thunderbolt 3 NVMe SSD V2), Apple Studio Display


I'd also like to use the AVID S4 Control Surface as a future expansion point. Is the S4 compatible with Carbon? What are the "gotchas" that I should be aware of in advance to making this significant purchase?

My apologies for this new thread but information I see in this forum from a previous thread on the subject is from 2020 or earlier. Thanks in advance for your expertise.


Mark J. Hill
Digitracks Sequencing
Sarasota, FL

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-12-2023 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Additional information
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2023, 07:32 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

S4 and Carbon are completely independent of each other and both work directly with PT. So yes they are compatible.

The S4 Eucon will need its own network. So you need two Ethernet ports. Carbon usually uses the internal Ethernet port. Which those MacBooks don't have so you'll need a Thunderbolt adapter - Avid can tell you what is compatible.

Monitoring - I don't believe the Carbon monitor is Eucon-ized so I'll have to defer to others. That might be the only gotcha I can think of.
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2023, 08:31 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

As the Carbon and use regular and Ultimate Pro Tools, I believe the S4 requires Ultimate.
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  #4  
Old 09-13-2023, 03:38 PM
[email protected] markjh10@icloud.com is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Will -


I appreciate your response.

Re: MacBook Pro (MBP) M1 Max: If I need to connect the Carbon directly to the MBP, I plan on using the Sonnet Thunderbolt Gigabit AVB Ethernet Adapter.

Re: S4 EUCON needing its own network / needing two Ethernet ports: Do you mean two Ethernet jacks on the same network or segment my existing single network using subnets?

I have an 1000-Base-T wired LAN with a selectable 2.4/5 GHz Wi-Fi Access Point with a 48-port switch (network infrastructure equipment is all compatible Ubiquity-brand). I even have the switch connected to the router using Ubiquity fiber modules (Ubiquiti U Fiber Multi-Mode SFP UF-RJ45-1G module) separately from the rest of the network. I have not sub-netted the single network I'm running on now. I've got 12 RJ-45 ethernet wall ports in the studio's backplane, so plenty of potential connectivity.

Since you bring up networking, can both the Carbon be plugged into the wall ports going back to the network switch & router in the server room? Will AVID's proprietary Audio Video Bridging (AVB) implementation allow for that without a separate AVB switch?

How does the S4 connect to the Pro Tools DAW? Through standard Ethernet going back to the switch/router using a separate sub-net or can it go on a single network? Or do I need a second Sonnet Thunderbolt Gigabit AVB Ethernet Adapter for the MBP to connect to the S4?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.


Mark J. Hill
Digitracks Sequencing
Sarasota, FL

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-13-2023 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Additional info
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  #5  
Old 09-13-2023, 03:46 PM
[email protected] markjh10@icloud.com is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

BScout -


Thanks. I believe Carbon comes with Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual license. Is that what you're referring to? Are there special EUCON plug-ins that I'll need to use the S4 with PT Ult? Thanks in advance.


Mark J. Hill
Digitracks Sequencing
Sarasota, FL

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-13-2023 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Additional info
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  #6  
Old 09-13-2023, 07:20 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks. I believe Carbon comes with Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual license. Is that what you're referring to?
Yes. The Carbon can use Studio or Ultimate but I believe the S4 requires you use Ultimate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Are there special EUCON plug-ins that I'll need to use the S4 with PT Ult?
In the Eucontrol installer, there are choices for what to install. The S4 uses the "S4 / S6 Workstation" app and not the "S1/S3/Dock/Control/Artist Series" app. You can only have one of those installed on a system at a time. So if you've previously installed one, you have to uninstall it before installing the other. You can uninstall from the installer (check "Uninstall all applications", run it, I always reboot, then re-run the installer and chose what you want to have installed.)
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  #7  
Old 09-14-2023, 02:32 AM
dominicperry dominicperry is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post

Monitoring - I don't believe the Carbon monitor is Eucon-ized so I'll have to defer to others. That might be the only gotcha I can think of.
Correct, no control over the Carbon from Eucon.

Dominic
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  #8  
Old 09-14-2023, 02:39 AM
dominicperry dominicperry is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Will -


I appreciate your response.

Re: MacBook Pro (MBP) M1 Max: If I need to connect the Carbon directly to the MBP, I plan on using the Sonnet Thunderbolt Gigabit AVB Ethernet Adapter.

Re: S4 EUCON needing its own network / needing two Ethernet ports: Do you mean two Ethernet jacks on the same network or segment my existing single network using subnets?

I have an 1000-Base-T wired LAN with a selectable 2.4/5 GHz Wi-Fi Access Point with a 48-port switch (network infrastructure equipment is all compatible Ubiquity-brand). I even have the switch connected to the router using Ubiquity fiber modules (Ubiquiti U Fiber Multi-Mode SFP UF-RJ45-1G module) separately from the rest of the network. I have not sub-netted the single network I'm running on now. I've got 12 RJ-45 ethernet wall ports in the studio's backplane, so plenty of potential connectivity.

Since you bring up networking, can both the Carbon be plugged into the wall ports going back to the network switch & router in the server room? Will AVID's proprietary Audio Video Bridging (AVB) implementation allow for that without a separate AVB switch?

How does the S4 connect to the Pro Tools DAW? Through standard Ethernet going back to the switch/router using a separate sub-net or can it go on a single network? Or do I need a second Sonnet Thunderbolt Gigabit AVB Ethernet Adapter for the MBP to connect to the S4?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.


Mark J. Hill
Digitracks Sequencing
Sarasota, FL
I don't think you have enough ports on a MBP to do this in a clear and easy way. MBP M1 has three TB ports and you need:
One for Carbon
One for S4 / Eucon network
One for external SSD
One for Display
One for a USB hub with iLok and other USB gubbins

I have an MBP M1 Max and use three ports for
1. Carbon via Sonnet adapter, but no S4 or other network (just WiFi for internet)
2. big external screen
3. Caldigit TB4 Elements hub with USB-A hub hanging off it (iLok, trackball, backup USB SSDs, UAD Satellite, etc.)

I can try a test running Carbon off the Caldigit, but I don't run a commercial studio so I don't really use it "in anger" in the way that you will. I suspect a Mac Studio would suit your needs better/more reliably. Preferably the model that has 6 TB ports rather than 4TB + 2USB-C (the Ultra models have 6 TB ports).
But it's easy for me to spend your money..........

Dominic
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Last edited by dominicperry; 09-14-2023 at 02:55 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2023, 08:47 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Since you bring up networking, can both the Carbon be plugged into the wall ports going back to the network switch & router in the server room? Will AVID's proprietary Audio Video Bridging (AVB) implementation allow for that without a separate AVB switch?

How does the S4 connect to the Pro Tools DAW? Through standard Ethernet going back to the switch/router using a separate sub-net or can it go on a single network? Or do I need a second Sonnet Thunderbolt Gigabit AVB Ethernet Adapter for the MBP to connect to the S4?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.


Mark J. Hill
Digitracks Sequencing
Sarasota, FL
By two ports I meant Carbon and S4 can't share. AFAIK Carbon needs the direct connection to either the built in Mac Ethernet or a supported adapter like that Sonnet AVB. Don't bother looking at AVB switches, since Carbon uses that proprietary Avid variant of AVB. So Carbon direct connects with a Carbon Pre piggybacking off of it.

Eucon generally performs best with its own subnet.

I also wonder if the MBP will be able to handle this amount of donglery (new word?). I can't really answer that but I'd seriously look at a Mac Studio to compare. Unless you already have the MBP.
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2023, 10:36 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools | Carbon & Carbon Pre compatibility with AVID S4 Control Surface

Just ran an S6 off an M1 MBP (with 2 added screens and UAD Octo.)
It's doable but needed 2 TB docks (and ethernet dongles.)

Also, keep in mind you can only cascade/nest USB connections about 6 deep (so the keyboard hub on Apple keyboards may not work) so you might have to re-arrange what plugs into what.
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