Mastering - sounded great in Pro Tools?

[mfefc]

Hey guys need some help asap.

Got an album im mastering at the moment, it needs to be finished 1st Feb.

rightly or wrongly this is what i've been doing:

i bounce down the mix open it up in har-bal, smooth it out, put it back in pro tools using:

Waves Q10 Paragraphic EQ
Linear Phase Multiband Compressor
Waves S1 Stereo Imager
Waves L2 Limiter
dither

i've tried BTD (bouncing to disk) wav at 16 bit 44.100 and also RTD using the region to export to file at wav 16 bit 44.100.

The problem is when i open it with itunes it sounds terrible! its a massive change to how it sounds in Pro tools. all that sound enhancer stuff in itunes is switched off, i tried it in windows media player and it sounded terrible as well. I imported it into har bal, playback using asio drivers for mbox and it sounded great, like it did in pro tools. Does this mean the file is ok and only sounds crap in itunes etc because its using a standard computer audio card? Does this mean that my master is acceptable? If not, how do i get it sounding in pro tools to be acceptable in itunes etc? Im so confused, any pro's out there that can help? if so please explain your procedure starting at the BTD.

any advice would be very much appreciated.

cheers guys.
Mark.

[ejwells]

Originally Posted by mfefc

Hey guys need some help asap.

Got an album im mastering at the moment, it needs to be finished 1st Feb.

rightly or wrongly this is what i've been doing:

i bounce down the mix open it up in har-bal, smooth it out, put it back in pro tools using:

Waves Q10 Paragraphic EQ
Linear Phase Multiband Compressor
Waves S1 Stereo Imager
Waves L2 Limiter
dither

i've tried BTD (bouncing to disk) wav at 16 bit 44.100 and also RTD using the region to export to file at wav 16 bit 44.100.

The problem is when i open it with itunes it sounds terrible! its a massive change to how it sounds in Pro tools. all that sound enhancer stuff in itunes is switched off, i tried it in windows media player and it sounded terrible as well. I imported it into har bal, playback using asio drivers for mbox and it sounded great, like it did in pro tools. Does this mean the file is ok and only sounds crap in itunes etc because its using a standard computer audio card? Does this mean that my master is acceptable? If not, how do i get it sounding in pro tools to be acceptable in itunes etc? Im so confused, any pro's out there that can help? if so please explain your procedure starting at the BTD.

any advice would be very much appreciated.

cheers guys.
Mark.

Me? I BTD with nothing on the master fader, to 24 bit/44.1
I import that file into a mastering session.
I put whatever I'm gonna put on the master fader in the mastering session.
Usually a multi band comp, and a limiter.
If I use, let's say, the Massey Limiter, I put a dither last in the chain.
If I use the Waves L316, or the Waves L2 (rare for me), no dither plug is needed, as the L2/L3/L316 have a dither in them.
I generally set the output of the limiter to -0.2
I adjust the threshold to show light limiting.

I then bounce that to 16/44.1 stereo interleaved.

The result always sounds exactly the same as it did in Pro Tools (when playing it back on the same system).

Your issues might be room/monitor related.

Is your room treated? What kind of monitors are you using?

How do the mixes sound in your car? On your home system?

[albee1952]

No offense is intended here. Can I assume you are new to mastering? If so, ejwells laid it out great and I do some mastering(even though I KNOW I am not a mastering engineer) following much of what he said. I thought I would add another viewpoint here. For those of us that are new to mastering, the best thing to do is; as little as possible. I start by analyzing the mix(if it hits -0 constantly or has flattened tops on the waveforms, I usually do a new bounce/mix and back it down a bit). Next, realizing that my listening situation is not up to mastering standards, I try to use as little EQ as possible(if it need a lot, I go back to the mix and fix it there). While the multiband compressors are great tools, misuse can dig a hole that your mix won't recover from so I rarely use one. I will use Waves L2, set for -.02 output and slide the threshold down until I hear it working but I will NEVER let the gain reduction meter show more than 2db of GR. If you still need more level(and you're REALLY sure about it), add another instance of L2 (substitute your mastering limiter plugin of choice). If I am in PT, I will use my L2 in the last insert slot and use its dithering. If I am in WaveLab, I use the UV22HR dither. 2 last points; if your mixes sound bad, mastering may not fix them. If your master sounds good right after its done, but sounds bad on other systems, your monitoring is not accurate. One thing I discovered in my room is; sitting on the couch behind the mix position is the most accurate listening position so I make all my low end decisions from there(your room may have a good spot that you haven't discovered yet).

PS. consider skipping the stereo imager on a mix.(I will use it on a track or effect return) as it works by messing with the phase of your tracks and I don't want to induce any more phase anomolies than I have to(again, just one engineer's opinion).

[lwilliam]

Check that when you import to iTunes, it's not converting it to a low-quality mp3. Same with Windows Media Player. It should sound the same as what you hear when you bounce from PT. The other way there could be something wrong is if somehow you are monitoring something DIFFERENT from what you're bouncing, so you might want to double check your bounce settings (which output is getting bounced).

I do occasional mastering jobs for indie releases myself and although ej has laid it out pretty well, one other thing I always do is import a ripped commercially-mastered CD track into my PT mastering session and compare it to my work.

I'll have all 10-15 tracks imported on their own tracks with their own plugins, plus one or two commercial tracks of similar style. If I run out of CPU, I disable the plugins on the tracks not ready for a bounce. You should be working with 24-bit files until your final bounce with dither.

If you put the mastering plugins on each track so that the master fader has no plugins, then you can solo the specific mix you want to hear. Each song can then get exactly the treatment it needs.

I've been leaning towards "less is better" on mastering myself. 4-5db of limiting is about the max I usually do. I only use something like Q10 if there is a serious problem and I need many EQ bands. Normally, I'll put a linear phase 4-band EQ on it, and then an L3 and I'm usually done. If the song has problems, then I'll add the Linear phase multi-band compressor as well....and I always keep PAZ frequency/phase analyzer on the master fader to make sure my ears don't miss something obvious.

Hope that helps!

[paulreed]

Originally Posted by mfefc

Hey guys need some help asap.

Got an album im mastering at the moment, it needs to be finished 1st Feb.

rightly or wrongly this is what i've been doing:

i bounce down the mix open it up in har-bal, smooth it out, put it back in pro tools using:

Waves Q10 Paragraphic EQ
Linear Phase Multiband Compressor
Waves S1 Stereo Imager
Waves L2 Limiter
dither

i've tried BTD (bouncing to disk) wav at 16 bit 44.100 and also RTD using the region to export to file at wav 16 bit 44.100.

The problem is when i open it with itunes it sounds terrible! its a massive change to how it sounds in Pro tools. all that sound enhancer stuff in itunes is switched off, i tried it in windows media player and it sounded terrible as well. I imported it into har bal, playback using asio drivers for mbox and it sounded great, like it did in pro tools. Does this mean the file is ok and only sounds crap in itunes etc because its using a standard computer audio card? Does this mean that my master is acceptable? If not, how do i get it sounding in pro tools to be acceptable in itunes etc? Im so confused, any pro's out there that can help? if so please explain your procedure starting at the BTD.

any advice would be very much appreciated.

cheers guys.
Mark.

I do a bit of mastering with Waves. I use the PAZ on my master strip in my session to keep track of my output level. I also run all of my track outputs to aux tracks and have multiple levels of grouping, one being "noaux" so I can easily pull my entire mix up or down without affecting it. I make sure my output level is between -.5 and -1.5 and bounce to multiple mono 96k 24bit files. Then I create a 96k session and import the tracks, it is my understanding thar mastering at the highest resolution possible is best, and also that the waves mastering processors can take advantage of all the extra ones and zero's for a fuller sound.
I would loose the Q10 and the S1, just use the linear phase multiband, try some of the mastering presets for starters and also try the adaptive mastering setting....but adjust by listening and bypassing. If you have these processors, you also have the L3, try it on the hi res cd mastering setting, it adds 5dB's and you will hear it working, but it is very transparrent, and then listen to the different profiles, they are suttle but quite powerfull. I then use the full PAZ to visually see whats going on in addition to listening, but never let it take over for your ears. If you really still feel like you need some eq, use the linear phase eq's AFTER the mutliband comp and BEFORE the L3.
If you are still not happy after many attempts and listening on as many different systems, take it to a mastering engineer, you have lost nothing but your time and gained better ears in the process.
I learned to do mastering by taking a friends massive collecting of old live DAT recordings of concerts, and turning them into cd's. I had to play them into and out of pro tools so I figgured why not pump the up too? I did over a hundred of hours of tapes, working with the waves processors as the concerts were playing into pro tools, before I knew it other studios were calling me to do their mastering.

hope this helps, enjoy!

334 D-verbs on an Intel Q9650, Asus P5Q Deluxe, 4 gigs Corsair Dominator 1066 RAM, 2 - Asus 256MB fanless video cards, 3 - W.D. 320 gig SATA drive's, 2 - 250 gig removable backup drive's, I-Star 400-6Q case, Sony Lightscribe DVD, Noctua fans, Corsair HX 620 power supply, ADS Pyro Firewire, Scythe Ninja Heatsink, Kensington Expert Mouse

[TOM@METRO]

It’s Difficult to add to what’s been said here.

How much work have you put into the design of your room (is it neutral?) and are your monitors the ones your room was tuned for?

No matter how good you are at this, if you can’t trust your room, the tracks will not travel well.

You can however “learn” an “off balance” room by trial and error. Just keep playing your masters in different environments and find where the shortcomings are and compensate for them.

I do a lot of mastering for clients, but I prefer not to master projects that I have mixed myself when given a choice. I like to have objective ears on projects going to labels, even if I decide to come back to my own ideas, I feel it’s smart to have this extra set of trusted ears.

Sonically speaking, Mastering is as (if not more) important as any other part in the production of “radio friendly” music. If it’s not done right, you will likely not sell.

[Scorpio253]

I was wondering, should your vocal track levels be a certain level in the MIX?

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by Scorpio253

I was wondering, should your vocal track levels be a certain level in the MIX?

If the song and the vocalist are worth hearing, place them where they can be appreciated, if they are not, smear them in the band track.

[Scorpio253]

Hahaha Aright thanks. Also, what are the best Waves plug-ins to use for mastering? (Eq, comp, etc)

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by Scorpio253

Hahaha Aright thanks. Also, what are the best Waves plug-ins to use for mastering? (Eq, comp, etc)

What bundle do you have? the Gold Bundle has Q10 for Eq, C4 for MB comp. and L1 for brick wall limiting. Bigger bundles have even more fun stuff.