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  #1  
Old 02-28-2007, 06:15 PM
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Default Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT



I have had to resort to bouncing QuickTime audio in 5.1 in Digital Performer. Is there a way to set it up in Protools? I seem to have a grayed out "Bounce Source" setting in the QuickTime menu for some reason.. How to get it to the movie is the problem.. No problem of course with just bouncing the audio form the session in 5.1:)

Thanks in advance,

G
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT

Hello. Are you using Digidesign hardware to run Digital Performer? I looked into this some time back and found that Digidesign in their ever loving wisdom decided to limit the playback to stereo only when using a Core Audio device. That's why you only see a stereo output in QuickTime. However if you are using Digidesign hardware to run Digital Performer we would have to delve deeper into why it's not working for you in Pro tools but does inside DP. I am going to guess you are using other hardware for DP.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT

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Hello. Are you using Digidesign hardware to run Digital Performer? I looked into this some time back and found that Digidesign in their ever loving wisdom decided to limit the playback to stereo only when using a Core Audio device. That's why you only see a stereo output in QuickTime. However if you are using Digidesign hardware to run Digital Performer we would have to delve deeper into why it's not working for you in Pro tools but does inside DP. I am going to guess you are using other hardware for DP.

Thanks for the response.. I have a 192 Digi Interface and HD2 system.. running 7.3.1 PT and DP 5.1.1 I only used the Bounce to QT option in DP because I could not figure out how to make it work in my Protools surround session.. I asked several people I know, but none of them bounce a lot of Qt's in 5.1... It's not that big a deal, but wanted to send it over to a client in the UK.. The other thing I need to do is build a 5.1 podcast of some kind with what I have.. Do you know the best way to do that either with audio or audio and video together.. mp4? How to you get the files in 5.1 there? Thanks, g
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:15 AM
thierryd thierryd is offline
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT

I haven't tried to play it back yet, but in QT pro you can add more than one soundtrack to a movie and put it to a selected output (L,C,R,Ls,Rs,LFE)
So you can add your 5 PT audio files to the QT, provided that you cut them to the same lenght as your movie (or else you need some more editing in QT, but this is not very practical).

I guess this will playback through 6 channels if you have the necessary hardware or maybe even via the optical out (does this have more than 2 outputs? ADAT format?)

Greetings,

Thierry
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT

Hello. So you are able to use Digidesign hardware as a front end to Digital Performer and can bounce a multichannel audio QuickTime? I wonder how you are doing that. When I looked into it what I found out is that the Digidesign hardware will only allow stereo out if you are using it as a front end for QuickTime (or other stuff I suppose). So you can see multiple inputs but only a stereo out. When you do a bounce to QuickTime video inside Pro Tools and you look at the audio source drop down list it only allows stereo.

I searched everywhere on the net and Apple forums, etc and found people that were able to bounce multichannel audio QuickTime simply. They all say it's very easy, just make sure you have hardware that has multiple outs, etc. The rub comes in that I couldn't find anyone anywhere using Digidesign hardware that could do it. Other hardware (RME, MOTU, etc) was fine and easy no problems.

So I am wondering how you are able to use Digidesign hardware in Digital Performer to bounce a multichannel QuickTime movie. Is it possible you could give us a step for step detail of how you do that? Maybe we can pin down how it's being done and maybe we can achieve it inside of Pro Tools. Theoretically it should be simple, the same way we bounce stereo QuickTime movies every day inside of Pro Tools. The only difference would be that when choosing the audio source for the bounce we could choose a 5.1 source ( or other multichannel configuration).

As for a 5.1 podcast I don't know how practical that is going to be. Podcasts are massively popular with iPods and personal computers. Very few people outside of audio engineers have multiple outputs on their laptops or computers. What is this podcast for? Do you guys know that there is a need for it to be multichannel? Is there a specific audience demographic that wants this?

As for the actual workflow and delivery, multichannel audio is always encoded for consumer consumption. DVD's, TV and Satellite broadcasts, etc all use encoding to deliver multichannel audio. So it's either DTS, Dolby Digital, Circle Surround, etc. Circle Surround has a Headphone matrix encoding option, and I believe the Fraunhofer people are developing MP3 surround. All these options tend to be academic however as these are all encoding options for the creator of the content. The consumer on the other end has to have (A) the same software to decode either having it built onto the hardware like DVD players or a software player decoder and (B) multiple speaker outputs on their iPod, computer, boombox, etc.

As you can see the chances that any audience listening to podcasts will have any of these things is almost zero. I don't think a multichannel podcast will be of any use. The only scenario I can see where it could work is if the end user is asking for it specifically.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in

Quote:
I haven't tried to play it back yet, but in QT pro you can add more than one soundtrack to a movie and put it to a selected output (L,C,R,Ls,Rs,LFE)
So you can add your 5 PT audio files to the QT, provided that you cut them to the same lenght as your movie (or else you need some more editing in QT, but this is not very practical).

I guess this will playback through 6 channels if you have the necessary hardware or maybe even via the optical out (does this have more than 2 outputs? ADAT format?)

Greetings,

Thierry
if you assign the 6 channels as you outlined above, it will indeed pay out the optical port on the MAC.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT

Quote:
Hello. So you are able to use Digidesign hardware as a front end to Digital Performer and can bounce a multichannel audio QuickTime? I wonder how you are doing that. When I looked into it what I found out is that the Digidesign hardware will only allow stereo out if you are using it as a front end for QuickTime (or other stuff I suppose). So you can see multiple inputs but only a stereo out. When you do a bounce to QuickTime video inside Pro Tools and you look at the audio source drop down list it only allows stereo.

I searched everywhere on the net and Apple forums, etc and found people that were able to bounce multichannel audio QuickTime simply. They all say it's very easy, just make sure you have hardware that has multiple outs, etc. The rub comes in that I couldn't find anyone anywhere using Digidesign hardware that could do it. Other hardware (RME, MOTU, etc) was fine and easy no problems.

So I am wondering how you are able to use Digidesign hardware in Digital Performer to bounce a multichannel QuickTime movie. Is it possible you could give us a step for step detail of how you do that? Maybe we can pin down how it's being done and maybe we can achieve it inside of Pro Tools. Theoretically it should be simple, the same way we bounce stereo QuickTime movies every day inside of Pro Tools. The only difference would be that when choosing the audio source for the bounce we could choose a 5.1 source ( or other multichannel configuration).

As for a 5.1 podcast I don't know how practical that is going to be. Podcasts are massively popular with iPods and personal computers. Very few people outside of audio engineers have multiple outputs on their laptops or computers. What is this podcast for? Do you guys know that there is a need for it to be multichannel? Is there a specific audience demographic that wants this?

As for the actual workflow and delivery, multichannel audio is always encoded for consumer consumption. DVD's, TV and Satellite broadcasts, etc all use encoding to deliver multichannel audio. So it's either DTS, Dolby Digital, Circle Surround, etc. Circle Surround has a Headphone matrix encoding option, and I believe the Fraunhofer people are developing MP3 surround. All these options tend to be academic however as these are all encoding options for the creator of the content. The consumer on the other end has to have (A) the same software to decode either having it built onto the hardware like DVD players or a software player decoder and (B) multiple speaker outputs on their iPod, computer, boombox, etc.

As you can see the chances that any audience listening to podcasts will have any of these things is almost zero. I don't think a multichannel podcast will be of any use. The only scenario I can see where it could work is if the end user is asking for it specifically.


ok
drag files into DP
open the movie along with it
then export it as a sound bite
you will then get the 5.1 .mov option
I should just do it in dp maybe
& be able to take a copy of the video at the same time. Seems to work..

Another way is to select the "Bounce to Disk" option after highlighting the tracks in DP that you want to bounce. I also created a surround track in the "Bundles" ..i.e. like the IO setup in PT..It works fine! I use the HD hardware as a output device for DP with the MOTU audio engaged, not DAE.. Maybe that is where I am getting you confused as to how I am using things..:) Sorry..G

As for the question about 5.1 Podcasts.. We are working with several people around the world including Apple that do think it is a viable option via optical as minister said and also there are cheap decoder setups that if people want to here great content in 5.1 on internet radio, they now will be.. hopefully:) It's always been my experience that you will have people that don't want something and some that do. It's something that I am working on in between my scoring jobs. For me, it's worth my time to explore this. G
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:57 PM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Bounce Surr Audio 5.1 to a Quicktime Movie in PT

Hello. QuickTime uses whatever inputs and outputs are available in the computer. Whatever is set in the Audio MIDI Setup (Mac Hard Drive > Applications> Utilities > Audio MIDI Setup) on your computer is what QuickTime will use as I/O. So if the Digidesign hardware is the only multichannel I/O in the system then that's the only way that QuickTime can output multiple channels. When Pro Tools is on it's obviously using the Digidesign hardware and nothing else in the system can use it. That means QuickTime, iMovie, Digital Performer or basically any other application. So far we have that straight. This can easily be checked. Turn on Pro Tools and then check the Audio MIDI Setup; you will see that the Digidesign Hardware is not a choice for input or output.

But however if we quit out of Pro Tools and then check the Audio MIDI Setup we see that the Digidesign Hardware is indeed now available for inputs and outputs. The kicker here is as I mentioned before, while you can choose all the inputs available on your Digidesign hardware, in their infinite wisdom they limited the output strictly to stereo. So even if we wanted to use the Digidesign hardware with another application, like Digital Performer, the outputs available would still only be stereo.

So here is what you can check for me to try to pin this down. Quit Pro Tools. Fire up Digital Performer. Once that's done, open up the Audio MIDI Setup and check and see if the Digidesign hardware is available for inputs or outputs. If it is, then check to see what's available on your outputs. If only a stereo output is available then I really don't know how you are getting more than 2 channels out to QuickTime. If all outputs are available then that's the answer of how QuickTime can access multiple outputs while using Digital Performer but not Pro Tools. If that is the case then I would have to check and see what version of the Core Audio driver from Digidesign you are using. The ones I have seen lately (from 7.x on I believe) only allow a stereo output. Anyway, I think that basically covers what may be happening here.

As for the discussion on surround I couldn't disagree more. I hope and wish with all my being that I will be proved wrong but I don't think I will. Surround sound for audio (music) simply has not taken off. In any form anywhere. Compare sales of multichannel DVD-Audio discs, multichannel SACD or music oriented DVD-Videos (concerts, music videos, etc) combined to any other form of music entertainment and you will see proof of what I am saying. Of all those actually I would dare say music DVD-Videos sell the best but even those are barely even alive compared to the rest of the industry.

It's all well and good that Apple is looking to promote this. Unfortunately for Apple the entire music business infrastructure has been pushing surround for a while now and they have failed miserably. Ironically one of the biggest reasons for the massive failure of multichannel, higher resolution DVD-Audio, SACD and music DVD-Videos is the massive acceptance of the Apple iPod and low quality, stereo MP3's. So Apple should be well aware that the masses of the world that want and use podcasts do so because their iPod is so damn quick and easy to use as well as their computer.

What makes it even more ironic and extremely frustrating, almost infuriating, is that surround sound is alive and well as part of DVD-Video for movies. Surround home theater systems are everywhere and consumers love to watch the Matrix, Master and Commander, Star Wars, etc and marvel at all the sounds coming from everywhere. However it very much stops there. It seems a very small percentage of those people are interested in any music products for surround.

If Apple thinks a massive amount of users all over the world are all of a sudden going to go through the trouble of setting up multiple speakers and making sure they have the correct decoding necessary on their system, they have another thing coming. If however they are just interested in promoting it is as much as they can and just creating a niche category of podcasts for a small group of users then that's another thing altogether. It's probably the same people who do use DVD-Audio, SACD and surround sound music DVD-Videos. But those people tend to be audiophile types, people who are probably not interested in iPods, podcasts and audio from a computer.

I think it's almost like trying to get a hardcore Republican to vote for Hillary Clinton. It's a philosophical difference. Surround sound has been shown to only appeal to a very small percentage of users worldwide and that's with the entire music business infrastructure supporting it. Podcasts, iPods and computers have been proven to appeal to basically the entire population of the world because they are quick, easy, simple and require virtually no setup of any kind. Just plug and go. These people have no desire to take the time to mess around with multiple speakers and trying to figure out if they have DTS or Dolby Digital, etc.

Again, I hope I can be proven wrong. I really really do. But I fear that will not happen. At best surround sound podcasts may become a niche that appeals to a small group of people. And that may be all you need anyway as far as you are concerned. It doesn't take a world market or a US market to create a profitable demand of content. Even a very small group of consumers can be very profitable in the correct business model. Either way good luck.
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