Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 12

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-13-2023, 07:58 AM
Isadore Isadore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 45
Default Re: true reference monitoring in Pro Tools 12.7

Thanks all for your input. I think I'm beginning to get educated on this. Actually the volume level on the mix the engineer sent back is hitting 0db with distortion. I'm not sure the proper term for this, but a bit of signal comes from the the top of the volume meter as well completely driving it up from the bottom as well. Also, I just realized, on my original session track, when I push the volume fader up to 0db, it distorts also, both in my monitor speaker and my headphones (which are Sennhauser HD580. There are no tracks clipping out. I did check the Apollo8 output reference level and it is set to +4. So, I guess the question is, why does it distort in my system and not his? thanks again
__________________
Bill Mize
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-13-2023, 08:16 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,303
Default Re: true reference monitoring in Pro Tools 12.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadore View Post
but a bit of signal comes from the the top of the volume meter as well completely driving it up from the bottom as well.
I can’t make sense of this statement.

There can be a lot of reasons why it’s distorting on your system and not his. Some of these reasons have already been discussed.

Perhaps take the file to someone else’s system or share it with the community to determine if the file itself is distorted or your system is not calibrated correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-13-2023, 03:41 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,511
Default Re: true reference monitoring in Pro Tools 12.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadore View Post
Thanks all for your input. I think I'm beginning to get educated on this. Actually the volume level on the mix the engineer sent back is hitting 0db with distortion. I'm not sure the proper term for this, but a bit of signal comes from the the top of the volume meter as well completely driving it up from the bottom as well.
Wait what? The only meter that "comes down from the top" is a gain reduction meter ... And if you are seeing a gain reduction meter move then you have a compressor/limiter or expander on that track... If so then you very well may not be looking at the actual file levels (all plugins are pre-meter, you can't have active plugins on these tracks and be looking at the meters and deducing level information about the audio file being played back).

Or are you confused by peak indicators bouncing up and down on say a linear or K-series meter?

You should be looking at the actual file you sent the other person and the actual file they returned, and examine these starting with new empty sessions with no plugins. Meters all to classic mode and reset the meter ballistics/break points/dB offset.

Any of this unclear or you not sure what stuff means read the pro Tools Reference Guide, there are also video tutorials on YouTube on Pro Tools metering.

I'm lost as to what you are doing or if you have really been able to following any of the suggestions we've made. It's concerning that just about everything you post has some amount of imprecision or confusion in it. It's great you are trying to learn, which is fantastic, but you likely to make faster/easier progress until you get on top of the basics. There are lots of good books and video on different aspects of recording, mixing, and DAWs but many don't cover the technical fundamentals well which can lead to ongoing pain. A good book that does cover digital and analog audio technology well, including the dB, dBu, dBV, dBFS, analog line levels, soup is https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Recordi.../dp/B09FXTQMY3. And that book is good in that you can just grab it and read the section you want to learn about. AES publishes good stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadore View Post
Also, I just realized, on my original session track, when I push the volume fader up to 0db, it distorts also, both in my monitor speaker and my headphones (which are Sennhauser HD580. There are no tracks clipping out.
Volume fader? Again what do you actually mean? Master track fader? track fader? Monitor level control on the Apollo/Apollo Console? You need to start being *super* clear about stuff.

No tracks clipping... but unfortunately we are not sure what you are looking at and you seem confused about meters and maybe plugins, so the best thing as already suggested by its2loud is for you to share that raw files send and received back with us. You can post on line and share the link here or if you can't do that then send me and its2loud a PM and share it privately with us. If the other person was sent a single file include that as well, if they were sent the entire session don't worry about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadore View Post
I did check the Apollo8 output reference level and it is set to +4.
+4 dBu. Every time you write some value where units matter please err on the side of being pedantic and include the units. It helps show if you are following stuff or not.

Setting the line output levels to +4dBu might be a good idea in general. But here you are running that though the Apollo analog monitor control, and you just use that to set the optimum listening level/turn it down if you are getting distortion in the monitors. And adjust, in combination with any input sensitivity adjustment on your monitors, if they have that, for optimal gain staging.

One sanity test you can do is play back a commercial recording in iTunes or something similar on your computer. Use something of the same type/genre of music you are making. Play it through the Apollo/your monitors. Turn the level up all way in iTunes or whatever app you are using. Adjust the Apollo monitor output knob to get a good listening level that is not distorted. Repeat for headphone adjusting the headphone volume knob. Now drag and drop that song into a new empty Pro Tools session and play it back from there the perceived volume should be the same. Leave the monitor knob alone on the Apollo and try playing back your files, play back the file in iTunes or whatever, and then Play back from a Pro Tools session, again starting with completely empty sessions, and just dropping the audio files into the mix window and let Pro Tools create the tracks.

Quote:
So, I guess the question is, why does it distort in my system and not his? thanks again
It could well be you've gotten back files that are clipping, or distorted, or maybe you are playing them back through plugins or maybe you are driving the monitors and headphones too hard. We cannot hear the distortion you are hearing or be confident you are doing stuff correctly here. So sharing the file(s) is really needed. Don't process or export it from Pro Tools. Just share the actual file you sent the other person (if there was a file sent there) and the file you received received back.

The Apollo may add complexity here. Do you understand the Apollo Console? Are you sure have no plugins on that, no gain applied to DAW returns etc.?

What was the person who worked on the audio really supposed to do? You sent them the whole mix? As a Pro Tools session? Or you sent them a bounce or export from the session? You don't have access to the processed mix? Were they also supposed to master your whole mix? If you wanted something mastered and maybe compressed to be "really loud" well... they might well have tried to do what you wanted. Or did they go ahead themselves and just push the mix as loud as possible (effectively trying to master the mix) when that was not your intent?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-14-2023, 07:23 AM
Isadore Isadore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 45
Default Re: true reference monitoring in Pro Tools 12.7

thank you all for your input, it is appreciated
__________________
Bill Mize
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-14-2023, 09:17 AM
Isadore Isadore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 45
Default Re: true reference monitoring in Pro Tools 12.7

update, it seems importing the mixed WAV files into a new session was the trick. I had been importing them into the original session thinking it would be easier to A/B them. Anyway, they sound great now. Thanks
__________________
Bill Mize
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-14-2023, 02:26 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,511
Default Re: true reference monitoring in Pro Tools 12.7

Great you worked out the mix coming back is OK. Importing bounces/stems back into the same session can be a great/easier way to compare stuff, and keep things organized, but you have to be careful with signal flow, esp. make sure there are no unintended plugins and/or fader gain in the path. Lot of folks will keep plugins off the master fader, instead use final/mastering plugins on a mix or submix bus going to that master fader and maybe add in a completely dry bus for things like testing bounces, A/B testing stuff etc.

This all may be a useful learning experience if you work out why you had a problem with this. Maybe do something like draw the signal flow on a piece of paper, from audio file > track plugins > track fader > meter (or meter > track fader) > (any sends/ bus / bus master fader etc) > output master fader > plugins > master fader meter etc. Likely all you need should be in the "Signal Flow by Track Type" section of the "Basic Mixing" chapter of the Pro Tools Reference Guide. I've seen folks print out signal flow diagrams from that section and stick on the wall...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reference CD/iPod Monitoring axisonline 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 2 09-08-2008 02:29 PM
Reference monitoring in Pro Tools Oli P Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 55 07-10-2006 08:51 AM
Monitoring Reference Tracks decibeljr Tips & Tricks 4 02-24-2004 08:32 AM
What Contemporary Song (1 or 2) Do You Like For Reference Monitoring? gabriel_p 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 13 09-01-2002 10:45 AM
24bit reference monitoring w/001 freakuincy 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 11 01-09-2002 01:56 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com