Fix & Unify Windows Decorations on Windows 7, 8, 10+

[Prabha]

Originally Posted by CygnusX-1Bk2

Good luck with that. This is why I won't use ProTools on Windows unless I absolutely have to. That and all of the problems Windows users are having. And Windows is a terrible operating system, especially since XP. But that's just me.

I disagree too! I've been using PT since version 10 on windows and the only serious bug I've had, is the click producing AAE error on 12.5.
That and reading the amount of issues Mac users post in this forum! also is unbelievable all the stuff that becomes obsolete every time apple updates the OS.

But since we are talking religion here, I promise to shut up now.

[AvidProToolsUser]

Everyone is completely missing the point.
Windows Decorations vs Windows Composition and its affect on performance.

Window decoration and composition are Two very different things.

Windows decoration: (Titlebar, close, maximize, resize, roll-up)
JuanPC doesn't realize they have made windows decorations lighter with win10 than previous versions. No borders, no 3D buttons, no border change during animation(just color), no 3D button change on click etc. -- These choices are less taxing on the system...if they even are taxing in general.

Windows composition: (Shadows, blur, animation, scaling, rotation)
Windows compositions are arguable the same as far as system taxation. Maybe I'll post a comprehensive comparison.
If one wants to disable windows composition by all means go a head.

Basically, if you are interested in unification of the modern GUI we paid for +1, else ignore post. Thanks.

[JuanPC]

You complain that ProTools System usage [x] does not look the same as ProTools Exit [X]

You blame ProTools...
You ask AViD to fix that...

But they look the same in Windows7
That means is not ProTools, is Windows 10.

That's what I see.


You can download Windows Themes & Skins, Transformation packs, search google.
There's a skin that emulates OSX exactly in Windows7.
www.thememypc.com

[AvidProToolsUser]

Originally Posted by JuanPC

You complain that ProTools System usage [x] does not look the same as ProTools Exit [X]

You blame ProTools...
You ask AViD to fix that...

But they look the same in Windows7
That means is not ProTools, is Windows 10.

That's what I've read.


You can download Windows Themes & Skins, search google.

Actually it means that Avid is using legacy code. Let us forget the composition and decoration.

If Avid is using a ton of legacy code in its design it will impact all of its users.
The more they keep the codebase updated as far as the GUI and general coding, the more it will help alleviate spaghetti-code and bloat.
Modernizing the decoration will also impact their c++ classes and keep them inline with MS Windows.
Microsoft is smart with WINAPI and other APIs...they usually create new classes in their code that often times are less bloated but are still backwards compatible.

You seem to misunderstand its true impact on the design of PT.
Suggesting to download skins would hurt system performance...Skins have these characteristics:
1. Run as a service
2. Alter registry
3. Constantly redraw explorer and other shell components
4. Use pngs and ico that have to be redrawn

They will adversely impact a system you choose to have Windows 95-like decoration on.

[hooksound]

My first encounter with PT (8 LE) was at a course, where they had both MACs and PCs and one of the first things that stroke me was the total lack of PT GUI consistency across the platforms. It looks like PT is developed on MACs and then ported to PC afterwards "because it has to". One thing is aesthetics, another thing is readability:

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...on/217156-3779

Point is that this inconsistency has been an issue for some time already. E.g. try to open a plug-in window and a send window in PT10 on Windows 7 and have them sit beside each other. There you also see a difference in frame colour and thickness. I must agree with the OP that it has now gotten even worse and PT 12 is indeed not pretty in Windows 10.

[AvidProToolsUser]

Originally Posted by hooksound

My first encounter with PT (8 LE) was at a course, where they had both MACs and PCs and one of the first things that stroke me was the total lack of PT GUI consistency across the platforms. It looks like PT is developed on MACs and then ported to PC afterwards "because it has to". One thing is aesthetics, another thing is readability:

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...on/217156-3779

Point is that this inconsistency has been an issue for some time already. E.g. try to open a plug-in window and a send window in PT10 on Windows 7 and have them sit beside each other. There you also see a difference in frame colour and thickness. I must agree with the OP that it has now gotten even worse and PT 12 is indeed not pretty in Windows 10.

Well unfortunately one of these issues with readability is a MS Windows fault. I use mactype to render fonts on Windows (https://github.com/Klaudit/mactype/releases).
Avid is not completely at fault with this -- although there are ways they could render fonts to clear it up.

Here are before and after so you can see the stark differences:







If anyone is interested in a configuration file for mactype PM me.
Also, after writing this post-- I decided to start programming a solution to fix these issues. Will keep you guys updated. But I hope before I finish AVID will beat me to it.

[hooksound]

Thanks AvidProToolsUser. This is very interesting.

I guess any proud software developer would strive for platform consistency. I seem to recall that one method is to embed fonts and other resources (e.g. bitmaps) in the app itself in stead of using stock resources.

One can only guess how the PT code base is structured, but it seems to rely quite heavily on the ever changing styles of the Windows API Common Controls etc.

[JuanPC]

Originally Posted by AvidProToolsUser

Suggesting to download skins would hurt system performance...Skins have these characteristics:
1. Run as a service
2. Alter registry
3. Constantly redraw explorer and other shell components
4. Use pngs and ico that have to be redrawn

They will adversely impact a system you choose to have Windows 95-like decoration on.

your own words:

Originally Posted by AvidProToolsUser

Believe it or not but PT can handle the window decorations perfectly.
Most PT power users are working with 4+ cores, 8+ GB RAM.
Visualization details are virtually insignificant to the performance of PT.

But as far as just windowing--min, max, close. This should be visually consistent. It is on MAC and has been for a long time.
note: Also if you disable all that you said above(Performance Options)...it will not change window decorations on WIN10.

[JuanPC]

Originally Posted by hooksound

It looks like PT is developed on MACs and then ported to PC afterwards "because it has to".

except the Noise Blast. LOL Jajajajajajajaja

[AvidProToolsUser]

Originally Posted by hooksound

Thanks AvidProToolsUser. This is very interesting.

I guess any proud software developer would strive for platform consistency. I seem to recall that one method is to embed fonts and other resources (e.g. bitmaps) in the app itself in stead of using stock resources.

One can only guess how the PT code base is structured, but it seems to rely quite heavily on the ever changing styles of the Windows API Common Controls etc.

Yes one can render fonts cross platform and tune. And my belief is when you create an application such as ProTools -- consistency is important. Often when one creates a DAW -- you end up creating an internal GUI toolkit.