Setup > Hardware vs Dadman

[shawnhonsberger]

Hi all, thanks for all the help you've been providing me. I really appreciated it while I've been waiting on my TB3 card.

Not to be negative, but why is there no real native integration with Pro Tools Ultimate for the MTRX Studio? Setup > Hardware shows nothing, and everything has to be done in Dadman. While I appreciate all the power and flexibility of Dadman, this is hardly the native, integrated experience I was hoping for with Pro Tools and an Avid interface.

Why isn't the software directly integrated with Pro Tools?

Thank you!

[creativecontrol]

MTRX Family devices are certainly excellent ways to input and output IO to and from Pro Tools, however they are not dependent on Pro Tools, nor should they be. MTRX Family devices are standalone converters with comprehensive routing, format conversion, microphone preamps, and sample rate converters - via several different expansion card options. Pro Tools can be a source or a destination but it doesn't need to be, especially now with TB3. MTRX Family devices could be used entirely as an incredibly powerful calibrated monitor controller for stereo up to theatrical immersive audio applications, controlled by EUCON, Streamdeck or NTP protocol. The routing and monitoring, which can be used with numerous DAW's, SFX management, design apps, Immersive Renderers, synthesizers, iPad apps, and more is not dependent on Pro Tools to be installed, opened, or ready to manage all of these digital audio interactions.

Not to disparage Pro Tools, which is certainly a first rate way to ingest and output digital audio for music and post - whether via DigiLink, TB3, Dante or MADI connections. I guess the larger point is, this is not an HD Omni - with basic controls for input selection, format, submixing and the like. This is an endlessly powerful routing environment which can solve most creative problems you throw at it.

best,


Jeff

[shawnhonsberger]

Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your thoughts on this, and that makes sense to me in the broader context of audio work.

While I LOVE the features of the MTRX Studio and Dadman, and plan to mix in stereo and atmos (of which there are amazing features here), I spend most of my time tracking myself (vocals and guitars after programming instruments).

I guess I don't exactly get a creative vibe when I think about building a cue in Dadman to monitor myself while tracking a vocal into Pro Tools. I can appreciate that the preamps and conversion are as top notch as I've heard (and will hopefully be able to test soon), but I wonder if I would be missing a "vibe" or a "sound" when just recording straight in without plugins. In Apollo (via Console or direct integration in LUNA) you can track through UAD plugin DSP to get a vibe on the way in with low latency monitoring (similar to the workflow of Carbon or HDX but with UAD plugins) and I wonder if I would just miss that when I fully transition to the MTRX Studio and the TB3 card. Does that make sense?

Will I be happy enough with the preamps that I won't mind tracking it clean going into Pro Tools (while monitoring the cue in Dadman)? I know it's a weird and subjective question and not a technical one, but what are people's thoughts on this? How does tracking clean make you (or others) feel? Does anyone who used to track in with Apollo miss the vibe whom now has to track in clean and monitor it all in Dadman?

Thanks, all, for your feedback and understanding. I'm interested in hearing all sides of this because I really rely on a good vibe and good sound tracking a vocal, in addtion to low latency monitoring.

Thank you!

[creativecontrol]

Don't confuse the UI of DADman with the creative possibilities of the environment the device makes possible.

If you want to track through plug-ins with super low latency - just like UA - you certainly can in DSP mode with HDX or Carbon.

best,


Jeff

[uptheoctave]

I'd like some functionality for Dadman built into Pro Tools but given I don't use Pro Tools all the time I don't want to be forced to have it open to do thing sin other DAW's.

My main feature request is to be able to control the MTRX II without requiring Dadman to be open. A direct MOM/Avid control connection to the device.

I realise this might be technically difficult.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by shawnhonsberger

Will I be happy enough with the preamps that I won't mind tracking it clean going into Pro Tools (while monitoring the cue in Dadman)? I know it's a weird and subjective question and not a technical one, but what are people's thoughts on this? How does tracking clean make you (or others) feel? Does anyone who used to track in with Apollo miss the vibe whom now has to track in clean and monitor it all in Dadman?

As Jeff said, HDX-DSP plugins exist that you can put them on your record channels in Pro Tools. Luna was/is attempting to compete with that feature of HDX (as is Antelope and Apogee with their DSP plugins.) They're all FPGA mixers. Best thing with Pro Tools HDX is you don't have to commit but get all the bonuses that something like Luna and you can "change" your mic pre later -- all because the DSP plugin exists in the PT session and not before the record input.

However, with the UA or HDX-DSP, you are talking about modelling. None of it is actually "dirty." If you want to do it, let's say "right", throw an external pre on one of the 16 channels in on the MTRX studio. As much colour or not as you want based on your choices.
I have a rack of tube mic pres wired to some of my line inputs.

I really appreciate DADman being outside of Pro Tools because sometimes I'll take a MTRX separate from my HDX system as a recorder. And it's really powerful at re-mapping (we'll have different Mon Profiles for different shows/films depending on requested delivery format.) The only "integration" with Pro Tools I'd like to see is either

• bi-directional communication with DADman of the configuration routing so that hardware delay comp is auto-calculated (there's obviously already some communication since you can enter in a name for your digilink ports and that appears in I/O setup)
• Or, a MTRX calculator for hardware delay comp in Pro Tools I/O (so at the top of the channel you can tell it where/what is the routing) so that pro tools has the correct hardware delay comp for the channel. Like you could say the patching is from AES or MADI or Dante or AD to that Digilink input and it'd pull from a lookup table on that hardware device and put the right delay in (especially since the math involves both "fixed" delays and delays that vary based on sample rate)

[BScout]

Originally Posted by uptheoctave

My main feature request is to be able to control the MTRX II without requiring Dadman to be open. A direct MOM/Avid control connection to the device.

Sadly I think only Colin Broad's equipment does this (his monitoring remote for the AX32/MTRX/MTRXII/AX64.)

My easier fix on two systems is there's an always-on mac mini (cheapest, doesn't need any horsepower) that runs DADman separate from the main system. Eucontrol can stay locked to this for monitor functions (or StreamDeck as I like it better for monitoring.) It's virtually the same as embedding a computer to run DADman in the MTRX. Having an "always on" DADman makes life a lot easier (especially if you have MOM or virtual MOM controllers since they never detach.) I don't even put a monitor on the mac mini -- just share screen to it.

(I also feel the footprint of DADman must be small enough it could run on a tablet but I think that would confuse Eucontrol situations that need to link to it. I think it'd be the first "eucon" enabled-app on a tablet controlled by Eucontrol and I can think an S6 would have real issues with that for its monitoring section)

[shawnhonsberger]

Originally Posted by creativecontrol

Don't confuse the UI of DADman with the creative possibilities of the environment the device makes possible.

If you want to track through plug-ins with super low latency - just like UA - you certainly can in DSP mode with HDX or Carbon.

best,


Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I'm not referring to the UI of Dadman. I'm reasonably aware that the creative possibilities of the environment it makes possible are far beyond any setup I can comprehend. :) I actually like the UI, it is fun and cute and makes me feel like a scientist.

I was referring to the ability to track through plugin modeling with low latency - as you say - but without having to by another interface or card. I guess I want this feature also built into the box, without having to buy another.

With respect, AAX DSP plugins add latency to the monitored signal where as there are 100 UA plugins that add no latency to the monitored signal. I didn't buy an HDX card because while an ingenious idea, it seems a little outdated as a platform, is not as good as TDM was, and seems to have a shrinking plugin ecosystem. I didn't buy a Carbon because while also an ingenious idea, it's AVB and talks to nothing I am aware of, cannot do Atmos monitoring, and has none of the other features of the MTRX Studio.

I'm asking if the MTRX Studio's preamps are good enough that I won't miss tracking through plugins. Do you subjectively think I would miss it? If so, I'll be happy to monitor through Dadman as it has killer features, albeit a large learning curve. Thank you, Jeff. :)

Thanks, James. I guess I still have an advantage of controlling the hardware via the front panel, in addition to EUCON. :)

Thanks, BScout. That makes sense. Also, I like those ideas. Especially the idea of running Dadman from an iPad! :)

[creativecontrol]

MTRX family converters are exceptionally good. MTRX family preamps are exceptionally clean and quiet - so nothing but good things to say. If you want a vibe - add a transformer or tube preamp at the input. If your process or flow is improved by tracking through plug-ins - consider adding an HDX card. There are many paths possible to achieve inspired audio.


best,


Jeff

[shawnhonsberger]

Thank you, Jeff! That is so helpful and encouraging to hear. I'm happy that it has such high quality, as there is truly no device that comes with all this functionality with the IO count MTRX Studio includes. I appreciate your time and your patience with me!

I literally can't wait for the Thunderbolt card! I wish that I knew the days so that I could count them.

Thank you so much! Thank you, all! All great thoughts!