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  #21  
Old 09-26-2022, 02:58 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

flandybob, I really appreciate you persisting in showing how to recreate this.

I know you tried with support, I finally had some free time so I filed a separate case for this, included screen shots, and Pro Tools log and referenced your case #. Mentioned it may have been closed and that a bug really should be created here. I can reproduce this on 2022.7 and 2021.12 and pointed that out in the case description. And also mentioned this happens with audio tracks as well/it's not necessary to have the click or any plugin ahead of the hardware insert.

My case # 04510497

I do wonder if this is an issue that has been causing some problems for folks with delay comp and hardware inserts at times, stuff I could never understand or reproduce. I made that comment in the case as well... this is a bug and needs to be opened as one if it's not already.
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  #22  
Old 09-27-2022, 12:33 AM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Hi Darryl,

Sure no problem, I hate it when there is an issue I can't understand.

Personally it's not a problem at the moment as I would only use hardware inserts during mix down but it would be great to have this bug fixed, as you say it could generate problems for other folks (and maybe me down the road if I incorporate more HW).

Appreciate you filing a bug report on your side and thanks for the support!
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2022, 08:10 AM
nebosphere nebosphere is online now
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Hello! Just wondering if the OP has had any luck with this issue. I have not tried the recent update but do suffer from the same problem. Let us know if there's anything to share. Thanks!
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2022, 12:58 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Seemed like this was not a burning issue for Flandybob (the OP).

I was able to get a bug opened for this it is PT-293686. This happened very recently and was going to post about it.

A work arounds and checks if you are seeing the same bug are... don't run a plugin after the H/W insert or don't use LLM. Obviously not ideal.

Please make sure you seem to be seeing the same thing, i.e. with LLM disabled you get the expected behavior with correct** latency compensation on a track with a H/W insert followed by a plugin. And when LLM is enabled that introduced an error equal to the H/W playback buffer (ie. either 2 x 1024 samples (44.1kHz, 48 kHz) or 2 x 2048 samples(higher sample rates)).

*If* you are seeing the same thing please file a support case and reference bug PT-293686. I, and I suspect Avid support, have a very poor idea of how many users are impacted by this. I was going to reach out to some old posters who I suspect have had this problem. I worry it's one of the things behind folks having H/W insert problems and the LLM/insert sequence with a plugin issue was never understood to reproduce this.

** Remember "correct" behavior especially with digital inserts, digital effects processors with internal latency, potentially with aggregate devices, outboard ADAT etc. may result in the delay compensation being out some amount of positive or negative offset and needing manual H/W insert or track delay compensation adjustment. That is Pro Tools working as intended... it's not this very specific bug that throws on these fixed large offsets when LLM is used.
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  #25  
Old 10-28-2022, 12:42 AM
flandybob flandybob is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

What Darryl said!

The fix is basically to turn off LLM. Not a problem if you are only mixing, if you need to punch in you are out of luck, either disable your hardware insert or freeze it to record with LLM.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2022, 09:45 PM
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edwinstar edwinstar is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

There is a preference called „Allow sends to persist during LLM“
Could you let me know if your bug is still happening when this is enabled?
I am writing, because i am having a slightly different LLM issue, but turning this to ON changed the behaviour of the Latency Compensation.
Thanks!
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  #27  
Old 11-21-2022, 12:20 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinstar View Post
There is a preference called „Allow sends to persist during LLM“
Could you let me know if your bug is still happening when this is enabled?
I am writing, because i am having a slightly different LLM issue, but turning this to ON changed the behaviour of the Latency Compensation.
Thanks!
Ooooh. Very neat. Yes checking "Allow Sends to Persist During LLM Monitoring" makes the problem flandybob initially reported here go away. Avid is tracking this as bug PT-293686 (my original case: 04510497). Uncheck it and it comes back. I have emailed support to ask them to add this info to the bug. I've asked if there is any update, we'll see.

Ed are you clear on how we are reproducing this? You need a plugin following a hardware inert and LLM enabled. Sometimes you have to make the insert Inactive/Active for delay comp to recalculate the wrong value. The delay comp value appears to be the correct value with 2 x 1024 or 2 x 2048 samples added (i.e. 2 x the fixed size IO buffers in Pro Tools, with size depending on sample rate which likely gives a clue exactly what is wrong--maybe it's trying to transit through a send that is not created by the user.)... and that hugely wrong delay value is wrongly corrected by delay comp, it's no just something being a displayed.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 11-21-2022 at 12:47 AM.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-2022, 01:33 AM
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edwinstar edwinstar is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

Hello Darryl, thanks for the Info. I will try to replicate!
My issue is that when i try to overdub on tracks with many Plugins on, the Pre Roll Audio is ahead 2048 Samples, resulting in huge timing issues. I assume our Bugs are related to Delay Comp not correcting properly when LLM is ON and Allow Sends to is OFF.
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2022, 10:16 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Pro tools Studio hardware inserts - Weird latency issue with plugins

May well be another case of Avid breaking stuff when implementing changes, too much of that happening. A cost of firing most of your engineering talent....
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