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  #1  
Old 02-09-2019, 12:11 AM
shyko76 shyko76 is offline
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Default Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

Hi all,

I was just about to fall in love with Pro Tools, when I discovered that it does not have delay compensation for sidechains in any native version. I mean, not even in Ultimate!

This is not intended to be a rant of any kind, but since I make use of sidechains a lot and I don't mean simple bass ducking only - which I guess is not too uncommon with electronic music production - I'm genuinely wondering why this is not really discussed all that often and how you guys keep on working with this serious limitation.

I mean, I've read about people manually nudging clips to make the delay of their source tracks fit, but since this is not a set and forget operation and one would have to adjust the offset everytime I insert another latency inducing plugin, keeping track of the when and where latencies occur seems like an inacceptible PITA to me.

So, how do you work with this? Or is it just an overblown thing to you, that doesn't really matter?
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2019, 02:00 AM
Downtown_BE Downtown_BE is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

as far as I know there´s a workaround for that - just use a track without any plugs on it as a source for your SC input.. worked for me
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2019, 04:37 AM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Downtown_BE View Post
as far as I know there´s a workaround for that - just use a track without any plugs on it as a source for your SC input.. worked for me


It’s been a while since I’ve tried, but are you sure that works?

You don’t need to nudge the trigger track at all?


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  #4  
Old 02-10-2019, 04:54 AM
shyko76 shyko76 is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

Wow, such an awesome explanation! I didn't know about the voice penalties at all, but I think, that I understand how the system works much better now.

Quote:
This, among some other points, is why DSP users should keep asking plugin companies to develop DSP versions of their products.
Yes, I always wondered what the big deal about that was. Now it all makes sense!

Thanks a lot for your time and sharing of expertise!

Last edited by shyko76; 02-10-2019 at 05:17 AM.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2019, 05:15 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

FWIW I wouldn't bother getting anything DSP unless you do a lot of multitrack recording and need the low latency for monitoring purposes. In my experience the combination of DSP and Native for mixing (and even overdubbing to some extent) is nothing short of a major headache, e.g. worrying about which combination of plugins is most efficient, and in which order, or worrying about how many voices are being eaten up with a number of DSP-Native combos. Dreadful way of working really. HD Native has few limitations and I've found it a lot faster to get mixes going.

BUT...I do like to use side-chaining in mixing. Not for the "pumping" especially (not my bag really), but e.g. side-chaining eqs, dynamic compressors, or whatever using the vocal as the SC source. Now these things aren't usually as time-critical as the "pumping" effect so it doesn't tend to worry me, but I do get into trouble if I'm e.g. sidechaining a "real" kick against a sampled one in order to clean up the mess of a recording, or whatever. The only real solution I've found in this case is to use the lowest latency plug-ins going, and either "freezing" the track once it's sorted, or freezing the plug-in that starts to push latency to an unacceptable standard. It's not great as a workaround, especially if you find yourself having to unfreeze things in order to tweak stuff, but on the whole it works for me. YMMV...!

The sooner the whole S/C mess is sorted the better really.
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2019, 04:32 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyko76 View Post
Hi all,

I was just about to fall in love with Pro Tools, when I discovered that it does not have delay compensation for sidechains in any native version. I mean, not even in Ultimate!

This is not intended to be a rant of any kind, but since I make use of sidechains a lot and I don't mean simple bass ducking only - which I guess is not too uncommon with electronic music production - I'm genuinely wondering why this is not really discussed all that often and how you guys keep on working with this serious limitation.

I mean, I've read about people manually nudging clips to make the delay of their source tracks fit, but since this is not a set and forget operation and one would have to adjust the offset everytime I insert another latency inducing plugin, keeping track of the when and where latencies occur seems like an inacceptible PITA to me.

So, how do you work with this? Or is it just an overblown thing to you, that doesn't really matter?
Yeah it’s a real drag.
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Old 02-09-2019, 04:38 AM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

Hi, welcome to the community.

Yes, it is true that currently SC latency compensation feature technically requires HDX hardware, which is why it is missing from all native systems.

I don't see why it couldn't be done on native mixer and would also love it if that feature would be developed very soon. For now, we will just have to wait.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:35 PM
shyko76 shyko76 is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

Thanks everyone! It's a real bummer.

So, what would be the least cost intensive HDX-setup to get? I know it has to be a combination of PCI core-cards plus an interface for I/O-duties.

For example could I just purchase this card and combine it with this interface?

And how about having AAX-DSP and native plugins in the same session? Would the ADC still work in any case?
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2019, 03:50 AM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

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Originally Posted by shyko76 View Post
For example could I just purchase this card and combine it with this interface?
yes. but it is best buying it as a system so you get all the required licenses
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:03 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Missing delay compensation for side chains - is it unworkable?

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
yes. but it is best buying it as a system so you get all the required licenses
Is anybody still selling the card and interface and s/w as a combo anymore? Sweetwater doesn't. You can get an HDX card with or without PT but you have to buy the interface separate. Same with Vintage King. Ever since Avid officially unbundled the interfaces and HDX/HD Native pcie cards it seems to be this way (ala carte).
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