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  #1  
Old 08-05-2006, 07:54 PM
marspe marspe is offline
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Default It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opteron

Well it's here... On the Nuendo hardware page the initial results of the QUAD Woodcrest (Xeon) cpu's are in and it's not pretty for AMD. The Woodcrest is the server version of the Conroe for those who don't know. Anyway, one of the DAW builders (ADK Pro Audio) got in a pair of Woodcrest cpu's running at 2.0GHz. There are a few benchmarks that the Nuendo folks use that are similar to the Dave-C tests you guys run here. The main difference being that more VST Instruments are used in the Nuendo tests.

Anyway, the Woodcrest numbers are nothing short of amazing! The Quad Woodcrest running at 2.0GHz is outperforming a QUAD Opteron 285 system running at 2.6GHz by over 25%!!! The systems are identical (i.e. soundcard, ram, hard drives, etc.) except for the motherboard and cpu's. Remember, the Woodcrest cpu's are 600MHz SLOWER than the Opteron, yet they outperform the Opteron by over 25%! Another user is receiving his QUAD Woodcrest setup this week but his cpu's are the 3.0GHz version. Those numbers are going be SCARY!

You know what the funniest thing about all of this is? Finally, after all of the years of Steve Jobs' BS about how the MAC is the fastest desktop computer ever, when the new Tower MACS come out, with the QUAD Woodcrest cpu's, HE WILL FINALLY BE TELLING THE TRUTH!!!
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2006, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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Anyway, the Woodcrest numbers are nothing short of amazing! The Quad Woodcrest running at 2.0GHz is outperforming a QUAD Opteron 285 system running at 2.6GHz by over 25%!!!
That's pretty amazing!!! But you know what? None of us with even the slowest Quad Opteron 265 rigs have yet to even max out the system on some big mixes. There is tons of CPU headroom to spare on even the smallest Quad Opteron rig with a big mix. I'm already building my second Quad and can put in any Opteron CPU I want, and it will be the 265 again.

I think all of this is great news. It will slam down the prices of the AMD Quads. And with the amazing power of the Woodcrest, it again demonstrates that it can all be done native these days.

Wait till we see the 8 core and 16 core rigs on both AMD and Intel roll out soon. Amazing CPU power we have now.

Thanks for this great news. This amazing CPU power we now have rocks!

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #3  
Old 08-05-2006, 09:29 PM
bb_aus bb_aus is offline
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opteron

do you have a link to the test?
heat and power consumption are 2 issues that i dont think intel have overcome yet and opterons still have a better system and processor bus and that should incease soon although currently intel have a better memory bus.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2006, 10:11 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opteron

Quad core Intel chips are due by year's end. AMD is said to have plans to introduce by year's end, but not available until Q2 2007. Still very cool!

As far as the Mac thing...don't forget- Apple and Intel are in bed these days, and Monday should yield the much anticipated announcement from Apple on their desktop systems. Seeing as Apple has a pretty solid history of going with dual cpu systems for their top end, and seeing as the MacBook Pro's have dual cores...I would predict Woodcrest powered Mac desktops. I would not be suprised to see a single, to-end Mac desktop/server with dual quad cores by year's end.

I think Dell and Apple get first dibs on Intel's top-end offerings these days...no?

All in all, we, the end user, makes out big with a nice set of choices, with close to reasonable pricing

Oh- on the nuendo forums: the one thread where they are discussing Woodcrest, and obtaining wicked low latency with a nice system load (heavy session), and diminishing returns. THIS is what I am really interested in. How low can latency get, buffer-wise? Will a 002 system be able to run at a 64 or 128 buffer with some serious virtual instruments running? Real-time audio and MIDI tracking, with accuracy, at 128? Hmmm...
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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Q...don't forget- Apple and Intel are in bed these days,
...and I guess we'll have to also add Logic to that list which could make things quite interesting.

Quote:
Oh- on the nuendo forums: the one thread where they are discussing Woodcrest, and obtaining wicked low latency with a nice system load (heavy session), and diminishing returns. THIS is what I am really interested in.
Hell ya, I'm very interested in this also.

Quote:
...Will a 002 system be able to run at a 64 or 128 buffer with some serious virtual instruments running? Real-time audio and MIDI tracking, with accuracy, at 128? Hmmm...
We'll have to find out very soon. This next year looks amazing for native based DAWS.

Almost time to spec out some new systems.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #6  
Old 08-06-2006, 12:55 PM
EDurney EDurney is offline
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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...Will a 002 system be able to run at a 64 or 128 buffer with some serious virtual instruments running? Real-time audio and MIDI tracking, with accuracy, at 128? Hmmm...

....we will find out soon!!! mmmm......so, how are the core duos doing at that low buffers settings??....can the macbook or macbook pro run at 128 samples without buffer errors and virtual instruments running??
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2006, 10:13 AM
marspe marspe is offline
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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do you have a link to the test?
heat and power consumption are 2 issues that i dont think intel have overcome yet and opterons still have a better system and processor bus and that should incease soon although currently intel have a better memory bus.
That's an even WORSE indicator for AMD. The Conroe/Woodcrest cpu's have NOTHING to do with the old P4 (Netburst) architechture. It is a totally new cpu platform. As far as power consumption, this cpu family started out as laptop cpu's (Centrino) and the power consumption numbers are amazing. Typically, these cpu's use LESS than 30 Watts. It isn't even close for AMD in this regard.

Oh in case anyone was wondering, the new Intel Motherboard that was used during this test has ZERO problems with mutiple UAD-1's, and or Powercore cards. That should just about seal the deal.

I wonder what Motherboard Apple will be using in the new tower MACS? I'm not sure if they could swallow enough pride to use an Intel Motherboard, but you never know. I still can't get over the fact that Steve Jobs will finally have the fastest desktop computer available, and not have to lie about it.
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2006, 11:10 AM
3JDamon 3JDamon is offline
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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The Conroe/Woodcrest cpu's have NOTHING to do with the old P4 (Netburst) architechture. It is a totally new cpu platform. As far as power consumption, this cpu family started out as laptop cpu's (Centrino) and the power consumption numbers are amazing. Typically, these cpu's use LESS than 30 Watts. It isn't even close for AMD in this regard.

Oh in case anyone was wondering, the new Intel Motherboard that was used during this test has ZERO problems with mutiple UAD-1's, and or Powercore cards. That should just about seal the deal.
The Pentium M's are amazing for performance/heat/power, and desktop models will no doubt be very impressive, but keep in mind that I've had my AMD quad for 9 months. If Intel puts out comparable technology 9 months later that doesn't kick its ass, it would be a disgrace. If you want to consider Woodcrests to be a victory over AMD, fill yer boots, but it's really just a typical advance in processor development, and don't forget that Intel has been sucking hind tit for years.

I also think supporting UAD-1's and Powercore cards is irrelevant. If you intend to use any such auxiliary accelleration then you don't need a quad, and vice versa.
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2006, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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Oh in case anyone was wondering, the new Intel Motherboard that was used during this test has ZERO problems with mutiple UAD-1's, and or Powercore cards. That should just about seal the deal.
I couldnt disagree more. Unless you are in love with the plug-ins that these cards offer, they are absolutely not needed with a Quad and beyond anymore. UAD-1, PoCo, Liquid Mix, Duende, APA etc should be pretty worried these days because of these new computer speeds. I'm sure you have already seen some of Bodies A/B tests on the Quad thread with his regular Waves plug-ins versus his Waves APA. Sorry to say, but they are just not needed anymore, unless you have a very slow system or you have an old session to recall that used these cards. Everyone of those plug-ins on those cards can be done 100% native with insane plug-in instances on the Quads and beyond. I cant see the sales of these things increasing within the next 18 months at all. But ya never know.

And in case anyone was wondering, that new rig that you brought to our attention is running Nuendo, not PT. And as you probably know, things start getting very different when you throw PT into the equation.

Quote:
I still can't get over the fact that Steve Jobs will finally have the fastest desktop computer available, and not have to lie about it.
We shall see. It's not a 'fact' yet. Dont forget that the Intel chip used in the new MacIntel Towers can also be used in the PC. So I have to scratch my head over that comment. But, correct me if I'm wrong, OSX can support 4 CPUs.(or is it 8?). This along with the future 4-core Intel CPUs should start to worry the dated 'PCI Card' concept to get more plug-in instances etc.

As mentioned earlier, this is nothing but progress until AMD slaughters Intel again in 6 months and then the see saw continues with Intel. In the end we all benefit from this. The future of native DAWS look samazing. The 4-core CPUs from AMD and Intel should start to worry the whole 3rd party 'Accelerator' card concept. We will soon have a variety of choices to choose from with very decent prices. Intel, AMD, Mac, PC, it's coming down to nothing but personal preference, since they are all very powerful. But for me, I will use any system that is 100% rock solid stable with PT. That's all I care about. Today I will open up PT on the Quad, work my 14 hours with zero computer problems and repeat this again tomorrow.

Shane
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Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

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  #10  
Old 08-07-2006, 02:35 PM
marspe marspe is offline
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Default Re: It\'s Official... Woodcrest Destroys QUAD Opter

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Quote:
Oh in case anyone was wondering, the new Intel Motherboard that was used during this test has ZERO problems with mutiple UAD-1's, and or Powercore cards. That should just about seal the deal.
I couldnt disagree more. Unless you are in love with the plug-ins that these cards offer, they are absolutely not needed with a Quad and beyond anymore. UAD-1, PoCo, Liquid Mix, Duende, APA etc should be pretty worried these days because of these new computer speeds. I'm sure you have already seen some of Bodies A/B tests on the Quad thread with his regular Waves plug-ins versus his Waves APA. Sorry to say, but they are just not needed anymore, unless you have a very slow system or you have an old session to recall that used these cards. Everyone of those plug-ins on those cards can be done 100% native with insane plug-in instances on the Quads and beyond. I cant see the sales of these things increasing within the next 18 months at all. But ya never know.

And in case anyone was wondering, that new rig that you brought to our attention is running Nuendo, not PT. And as you probably know, things start getting very different when you throw PT into the equation.

Quote:
I still can't get over the fact that Steve Jobs will finally have the fastest desktop computer available, and not have to lie about it.
We shall see. It's not a 'fact' yet. Dont forget that the Intel chip used in the new MacIntel Towers can also be used in the PC. So I have to scratch my head over that comment. But, correct me if I'm wrong, OSX can support 4 CPUs.(or is it 8?). This along with the future 4-core Intel CPUs should start to worry the dated 'PCI Card' concept to get more plug-in instances etc.

As mentioned earlier, this is nothing but progress until AMD slaughters Intel again in 6 months and then the see saw continues with Intel. In the end we all benefit from this. The future of native DAWS look samazing. The 4-core CPUs from AMD and Intel should start to worry the whole 3rd party 'Accelerator' card concept. We will soon have a variety of choices to choose from with very decent prices. Intel, AMD, Mac, PC, it's coming down to nothing but personal preference, since they are all very powerful. But for me, I will use any system that is 100% rock solid stable with PT. That's all I care about. Today I will open up PT on the Quad, work my 14 hours with zero computer problems and repeat this again tomorrow.

Shane
The point about the UAD-1 cards was simply to point out Motherboard compatability. Since multiple UAD-1 and Powercore cards are running great, the Motherboard that Intel has released is working great. I wasn't making any claims about cpu power vs dsp power, just pointing out that the Intel Motherboard is working flawlessly with multiple DSP cards.

Also, the fact that this was a "Nuendo" test vs. a Pro Tools test is sort of irrelevent. All the Nuendo test did for me was to PROVE that all of the STANDARD PC tests that have already been run by all of the reviewers out there (i.e. Anand Tech, Xbit Labs, Toms Hardware, etc.) are valid in regards to audio-centric testing. Conroe/Woodcrest has already been shown to outperform AMD in EVERYTHING ELSE! Games, Multimedia, Office, 3d Rendering, Scientifica, etc. tests have shown at least a 25% improvement for Conroe over AMD. In many cases it's closer to 50% or more. The Nuendo test just shows that Intel's domination extends to Audio. If someone here builds a QUAD Woodcrest, the current QUADzilla will be demoted to 'BABYzilla'.

As far as the new MACS are concerned, obviously you can build your own PC and put whatever you want in it, but for the average joe, walking in and buying a ready made Dual Woodcrest MAC for $2000.00 isn't that bad of a deal. Most of the Quad guys here probably spent $1500 on their Quadzilla and it wont be anywhere near as fast as the new QUAD Intel MAC for only $500 more. Remember, a 2.0GHz Quad Woodcrest outperformed a 2.6GHz Quad Opti by 25%. What if they were both running at 2.6GHz? The number might be closer to 75%. On top of that, they can run OSX and Windows so all the MAC snobs in the industry wont choke on the fact that they are working on a PC (eventhough the Intel MAC is a PC in every sense of the word).

Finally, as far as AMD slaghtering Intel in 6 months, sorry that's not going to happen. The K8L, AMD's next big cpu, MIGHT bring AMD to 'parity' with Intel, but even that is in doubt. The K8L adds SSE128 and a few other enhancements, but is otherwise the same basic cpu core that AMD has been using since the Athlon XP came out. AMD is a LONG way from 'slaughtering' Intel, and will most likely remain so for the foreseable future. They will have to come out with a brand new architecture to take the performance title away from Intel.
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