Vocalist Plug-ins

[shultzee13]

Hey Guys. I have really received an awesome amount of knowledge from this discussion group. I am interested in hearing anyone's opinion on recording vocals. I have NEVER gotten a professional sounding vocal track and I need something for M-powered 7.1. I would like suggestions on mics. I am currently using an AKG Perception 100, which is decent but it just doesn't cut the mustard. I may have to rent something for a few weeks to do this. Any suggestions on this and plug-ins or techniques would be very cool.
Again thanks guys for all the help in the Pro Tools world. Hopefully someday I can pass on my knowledge.
Dillion9999 suggested a UAD-1 pack which looks very cool. Is it compatible with M-powered? I don't see it in the Digi list.

Thanks.

[dillon99999]

you will never get that "professional" sound, unless you use professional equipment.

i have a neumann u87 mic.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

but the neumann is not going to do it's job to full potential, unless you have a good pre-amp to drive it.

for that, i use an avalon m5 - which i learned about by reading articles and talking to world class recording engineers from top studios.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

there is a reason why these two pieces are creme de la creme and very costly.

if you want a good mic sound, then you need to invest some money (or perhaps save up) and get your equipment right.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

those on a budget may get good results from a Rode NT - but you will be pressed to get that Whitney Houston or Celine Dion sound on a Rode.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

also remember, that 50% of the equation is the mic - and the other 50% is the ROOM / booth.

even a good mic will sound horrible in a poorly constructed booth - but it will sound way better than a bad mic in a bad room.

the trick is to not make it too dead, yet not make it too live - a balance that is acquired over time.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"networking" with other engineers can greatly add to your knowledge base, and is highly recommended, because you will avoid pitfalls and common mistakes.

you may even consider joining the Audio Engineering Society (AES) and going to conventions to learn about equipment.

many vendors of equipment will help you navigate the various ins and outs of their product lines - but be skeptical and realistic when it comes to their sales pitch.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yes the uad-1 is compatible with pro tools - i use it on every mix.

most high end studios have HD systems, which give engineers more power than a UAD-1 - but for the home studio or small budget studio, it is highly recommended - because it CAN deliver a good mix, when used properly by a good engineer.

ymmv - good luck - and always invest your money where it will reap the most payback.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[shultzee13]

So what do you think about Ozone 3 for mastering? Would it be a good idea to use this with the UAD-1? or one or the other.

Again your help has been invaluable.
Eric

[dillon99999]

never used ozone3.

don't know what it is.

i have the uad-1, and only speak to things that i know work for me.

for that, i use a precision limiter and pultec eq's to get a sweet sounding mix.

i also use the LA-2A, and 1176 compressors.

[tash]

Ozone is cool for mastering. Of cource can't be compared to mastering engineering's work in no way, but for mastering on your own, you won't get anything better especially for that price. Totally professional, too.

So if you wanna polish up your entire mix to make it sound like a radio tune, ozone is good, but it won't make a $100 mic sound like a $4000 mic. And to process vocal, voice/channel strip plug is better.

Any single mic probably won't work for everybody. Sometimes you find cheaper mics better than the most expensive mics for some voicals. That's why studios have a large collection of mics.

If you are really good at EQing, however, you can make the vocal sound significantly close to more expensive microphones, too, provided the mic is professional mic like yours (Perception). You know you can't get a pro quality sound from a PC USB mic, $10 dynamic mic etc... That's what I meant professional here.

MicrohpneS under $1000 that sound professional to me

Sputnik M-Audio, MA-200 Mojave Audio, Rode NTK , CAD Trion-8000&M9....there maybe more, but I only listed what I at least heard somewhere. Of course I'd buy vintage neumann if I got dough. Oh, Blue is good. They got a good craftman who can repair everything on site. Other big companies probably don't have such craftsman anymore.

Unless I can go for a vintage one, even if I got $4000 for a mic, I'd probably grab a few of those I listed above than a single expensive microhone. Won't buy 40x $100 but maybe a few of those or 2 of them and another good mic pre would be my choise.

[philwinkle]

Dillon9999 has a ton of money apparently. For those of us on a more limited budget it might be worth your while to spend about $1500 and buy the following:

Mic #1: AKG 414B-ULS
This mic has a fantastic sound for vocals and for close-mic'ing multiple stringed, reed or percussion instruments. It's very flattering and has a great tone. It's so useful, it's worth blowing half your budget on it.
Price: ~$650


Mic #2: Nady RSM-2
This mic is going to blow you away by not only how cheap it is, but by how incredible it can sound. It is the least expensive ribbon mic you can buy, but it doesn't sound that way. You could also sub it for another cost-conscious ribbon like the Shiny Box 23.


Preamp: SM Pro PR8E with BLA analog mod
This pre is 8-channels wide and has a really decent sound natively. It has an ADAT card slot you can install for extra channels with your 003 or 1814; or you can just run it straight into the TRS inputs. Each channel has Phantom and a pad, which is really nice. Just barely enough gain for your new RSM-2 ribbons, but it just gives such a nice Great-River-esque sound after the mod. I have one pre-mod and one post-mod and the difference isn't HUGE, but huge enough to spend the $325 on the mod instead of $2000 on 2 channels of Great River. Such a low price for such a great sound you just can't pass.



I know it's not Neumann, it's not Peluso, and it's not Royer; but these tools will help you get a great sound guaranteed. And you can't beat the price for a non-commercial project studio owner on a budget.

Just my $0.02.

[philwinkle]

Oh, and I forgot to mention plugins for vocalists:

It sucks to have to say it, but if you actually drop the $$$ on the UAD system you'd be quite impressed. The only problem with the UAD is the price for the hardware, plus additional plugins aside from the 5 that come stock with the UAD-1e. I really believe that with CPU power being what it is nowadays in the multi-core world of audio processing, you can get Waves Native plugins that will add life to your mix. Here are some I like to use:

Waves Native Vocal Bundle.
It retails for about $750; but I've seen it go on eBay for ~$400. The Vocal Bundle has a vocal comp and an EQ; but the best part of this is the pitch-correction. It's pretty awesome and stands up really well to AutoTune. You get extras like De-Breath and Doubler, too.

If you catch a good deal on the Gold bundle ($650 on eBay recently with Buy it Now) pick it up; because it has 3/4 of the Vocal Bundle, but with about 25 other plugins you'll use; including 2 that I can't live without for quick and dirty "mastering". They are:

C4 Native
This multi-band compressor allows you to mimic Opto and Electro compression and set compression/release and attack independently for up to 4 seperate bands. I like to use this as a stereo bus compressor in a mix and I use it to pump up drum room mixes too. Remember, you can sorta parametric EQ as well as compress across multiple bands with this one.

L2 Native
While most people would argue that L3 sounds/performs better and also comes with a multi-band EQ as well as having low-latency monitoring ability; I highly recommend the L2 plugin. This performs double-duty as well, being a Master Bus limiter and will perform IDR quantizing as well. Pretty handy and this goes on every mix I do.


For the bundles, you're looking at just under $1000, but you can find these ~$750 pretty regularly. And for the price you can get a bit more bang for your buck than the 5 included plugins with the UAD-1e entry-level pack. I'm sold on Waves, but you can also look to the following companies for similar bundles:

URS Audio
McDSP
WaveArts

[detroitkruk]

i like to start with the "singer that sings well" plug-in...

and there is absolutely no doubt the neumann u87 + 1073 + 1176 signal path "sounds" like a hit vocal...

detroitkruk