Next Victim - Artist surfaces do not work with PT11 but work fine with PT10

[jimmyjayp]

I finally took the plunge to try PT11. I set out to be able to run PT10 and PT11 side by side. I seem to be suffering a similar fate to others posting on this forum.

My surfaces work fine with PT10 but not at all with PT11. Looking at the Avid survey on this, I've made sure the workstation is attached properly, nothing is locked to an application, etc..

Two things of interest…

In the MC_USER_SET__Root/ directory, I only see an XML file for the PT10 version. Also, when I look at the first 15 lines of the file, it thinks it's for EuControl 2.7.1 (which was the version installed prior to my installing 3.2.1) - see bottom of my post.

I have made sure EuControl was disabled (not launched) at boot and I start MC_Client manually (from App Launcher) prior to starting EuControl. Nothing seems to fix this problem.

I don't know what else to do! It seems ludicrous but I have to choose between PT10 with my surfaces or PT11 without.

If I were willing to commit to PT11 is there a way to start from scratch with all this and get the surfaces working properly with it? I'd rather go that route vs. not having them and not being able to switch between the two versions.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
JJ


Recordings-Mac-Pro:~ recording$ ls /Library/Application\ Support/Euphonix/UserSets/MC2User/MC_USER_SET__Root/
Pro Tools 10Mac.xml

Recordings-Mac-Pro:~ recording$ head -15 /Library/Application\ Support/Euphonix/UserSets/MC2User/MC_USER_SET__Root/Pro\ Tools\ 10Mac.xml
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?>
<AppSet>

<AppSetWide>
<AppName></AppName>
<AppSetName></AppSetName>
<AppSetUID>9EBD597D-A89B-48B4-93F4-3799EDBA75A0</AppSetUID>
<AppVersion></AppVersion>
<Author></Author>
<CreationDate>Wed Mar 9 09:00:00 2011</CreationDate>
<EuConVersion>2.5.7 Artist Series</EuConVersion>
<LastModifiedBy>Devin Workman</LastModifiedBy>
<MCVersion>2.5.7 Artist Series</MCVersion>
<ModifiedDate>Sun Jul 28 21:23:39 2013</ModifiedDate>
<Notes></Notes>
Recordings-Mac-Pro:~ recording$

Recordings-Mac-Pro:~ recording$ dns-sd -V
Currently running daemon (system service) is version 379.38
Recordings-Mac-Pro:~ recording$

OSX 10.8.5
EuControl 3.2.1
PT 10.3.9
PT 11.3.0

[Bill Denton]

Let me first mention that I'm a Windows guy. A lot of this stuff is "OS agnostic", but I may need to ask you about some Mac stuff as I think this through.

In your XML file, I noticed the paths included this Application\ Support ...is the space between "\" and "Support" legal on Macs?

Do you have your control surfaces powered on prior to starting your computer?

Are your control surfaces on a separate network, or are they on the same network with an Internet connection, other computers, or anything else?

Regarding this: I have made sure EuControl was disabled (not launched) at boot and I start MC_Client manually (from App Launcher) prior to starting EuControl. Nothing seems to fix this problem.

Roughly how long after you turn on your Mac is it before you start MC_Client? How long after you start MC_Client is it before you start EuControl?

A lot of this stuff theoretically shouldn't matter, but sometimes things get squirrely...

[jimmyjayp]

Thanks for the reply.

The XML file was laid down by the Avid software (it's not not mine) so I've really no idea what the content means or how it's used. I just thought it was strange that the EuControl version tags were incorrect based on the 3.2.1 version I installed. I was made aware of the file as it was mentioned on the Avid Survey asking for information as they were having trouble re-creating some of these related issues in the lab.

WRT starting the services and software manually, I did wait 15-30 seconds before starting the EuControl software after launching MC_Client. I fired up MC_Client a few minutes after the boot process completed.

I had been through a large number of reboots and attempts since I started this little adventure so I don't believe it has to do with timing or sequencing but I am open to anything.

[jimmyjayp]

Forgot to mention that I've tried this with my surfaces powered on before and after EuControl is launched. Since it works with PT10 I get the sense that whatever is wrong has to do with the way PT communicates with EuControl and not how EuControl communicates with the surfaces.

[Southsidemusic]

Hey

BEFORE you do the action below :

Go into Peripherals in PT settings and check that the Eucon Enabled button is Enabled as it un enables itself sometimes.

If thats a dead end do the following:

If you delete the whole folder with the XML files inside and do a uninstall of Eucon version you have now afterwards. Then do a new installation of the Eucon 3.2.1 will ot work then?

Best
Christopher

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by jimmyjayp

Forgot to mention that I've tried this with my surfaces powered on before and after EuControl is launched. Since it works with PT10 I get the sense that whatever is wrong has to do with the way PT communicates with EuControl and not how EuControl communicates with the surfaces.

Sounds like you've pretty well got your bases covered...

I think you may have misunderstood one thing I was trying to say...it's important to have your control surfaces powered on before you power-on the computer.

This is one of those things that theoretically should not make any difference...people unplug and replug network cables all of the time with no problems.

But with control surfaces, we are asking Ethernet to do things it was not designed to do. By having the control surfaces "on" before booting the computer allows the OS to fully "see" the control surfaces, and, if necessary, load different configurations, drivers, whatever.

You didn't mention if your control surfaces are on a a dedicated network, or if they are on a network shared with Internet connections or other computers. Problems sometimes crop up if the control surfaces are not on a dedicated network.

Since PT 10 is a 32-bit application and PT 11 is a 64-bit application, I wouldn't draw any conclusions due to Eucon working with PT 10. It's quite possible that there are some differences between the 32-bit and 64-bit components.

I wasn't concerned with the XML file or it's location per se...I was simply curious as to whether spaces are allowed in Mac file paths...they aren't legal in Windows.

Try what Christopher suggested first...if that doesn't work see if you can get me the information I asked for here, and we'll keep on digging...

Good luck!

[jimmyjayp]

Thanks again. I'll be at the studio in a few hours and will try your latest suggestions.

Bill from Pgh (great city, BTW), I do have an internal network with a dedicated GB switch - each port is 1g capable). I will make sure the surfaces are powered up prior to booting the mac. There are a few other devices on my network including a Macbook Pro, Sonos system and a QNAP NAS appliance. There's also a separate router which runs the DHCP service as well. I only use a fixed IP for the QNAP. Everything else is dynamically assigned but the lease time is long enough that I'm fairly sure they always get the same IP assigned anyway.

As for filenames, HFS+ (the standard FS for mac's these days) does allow extended ascii characters including spaces as well as multi-byte characters as well. I see spaces used fairly often including by the OS itself (for example, there's a 'Library/Application Support/' directory for each user).

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by jimmyjayp

Thanks again. I'll be at the studio in a few hours and will try your latest suggestions.

Bill from Pgh (great city, BTW), I do have an internal network with a dedicated GB switch - each port is 1g capable). I will make sure the surfaces are powered up prior to booting the mac. There are a few other devices on my network including a Macbook Pro, Sonos system and a QNAP NAS appliance. There's also a separate router which runs the DHCP service as well. I only use a fixed IP for the QNAP. Everything else is dynamically assigned but the lease time is long enough that I'm fairly sure they always get the same IP assigned anyway.

One of those "fun with English" things...by "dedicated", I was referring to having a separate physical network that is carrying only Eucon traffic.

FWIW, with the S6 system, Avid now includes a built-in DHCP server and recommends the use of a "Eucon only" network.

The problem we are trying to avoid is having "mixed" traffic on the "Eucon" network. Theoretically, it shouldn't be a problem, but there are a lot more errors on "mixed traffic" networks than on dedicated Eucon networks...to be honest, since it's a relatively "cheap fix" and since having Eucon on a separate network eliminates the possibility, I haven't really dug into it very much.

Don't know how you're using your Sonos or QNAP, but both of those can generate a lot of traffic...if they are being used when you are trying to use your Eucon stuff you're running a lot of mixed traffic.

I gather you know a fair amount about networking but I don't know how much, so please excuse me if I'm telling you things in this next part that you already know.

On your QNAP, your fixed address is probably 192.168.1.xxx or 192.168.2.xxx (if it's a 10.xxx.xxx.xxx let me know if you can't "translate" my explanation). Don't worry about the 192.168 part for the moment. In the above IP addresses, the third group of numbers, .1. and .2. are logical network numbers, while the .xxx would be a device number. On a separate Eucon network, in addition to a separate physical network, you will need to use a separate logical network. So you will want to pick a number between 1 and 255 that is different from the logical network number used on your QNAP. (Actually it could be between 0 and 255 but 0 is typically not used...I don't do this stuff regularly so I've forgotten why).

You would install a second network card in your Mac, set its address to 192.168.(different network number).1, and connect it to a separate switch. On your first Eucon device you would set its address to 192.168.(different network number).2 and connect it to the switch. You would do this with all of your Eucon devices, incrementing the device number each time.

If your router comes from your cable company Verizon/Comcast/whatever), it's typically a router/switch (has multiple RJ45 jacks). If it is a router/switch, you can just connect your MBP, QNAP, and Sonos directly to your router/switch and use your gigabit switch for your Eucon-only network.

And again...my apologies if you already knew that stuff.

As for filenames, HFS+ (the standard FS for mac's these days) does allow extended ascii characters including spaces as well as multi-byte characters as well. I see spaces used fairly often including by the OS itself (for example, there's a 'Library/Application Support/' directory for each user).

Actually, I talked myself into confusion on this one! In my original example I used "Application\ Support" and I should have referred to the leading space, which is not legal on Windows...however, an embedded space "Library/Application Support/" is also legal on Windows.

BTW...I've only been in Pittsburgh for a little over six years, but I love it here. I moved here after 20 years in Chicago, and Pittsburgh has most of the good things Chicago has, and very few of the bad things it has.

I hope some of this stuff is helpful...you seem like a good guy and this stuff can make you crazy in a hurry!

[jimmyjayp]

Well gentlemen, I owe you each a beer. I feel like an idiot but the Enable EuCon was NOT checked. All the windows I looked at, all my web research and reading and that stupid little checkbox never made my radar!

Checked it and wah-la. Faders came to life.

Bill, sorry I didn't take your meaning on establishing a dedicated network just for the Eucon traffic. As you surmized, I don't have one. Will consider doing that at some point but I'll have to partition ports on my switch on to a different VLAN and don't want to deal with that unless I absolutely have to. I'll also need to run another DHCP server or assign statics everywhere. Further, I don't think there's much broadcast traffic going on my network and the switch should partition all point to point traffic. Regardless, I'm of the "if it works don't fix it camp" and stuff is working again.

One thing of note, for whatever reason, my setup actually misbehaves if my surfaces are powered on before EuControl is fired up. When I do that, it seems to see them (they are listed in the Available box but are greyed out) but U can't tell it to use them and more notably, the boards kind of lock up. I can't even power them down (I have to pull the power cable). If I start them after EuControl is already running, they work fine. Go figure.

Again, many many thanks for your effort on helping me through this!
JJ

[Southsidemusic]

That Enable Eucon sometimes un-enables itself when updating so thats why I said check there first

Also keep in mind when you do a trashing of Preferences and Databases the Eucon buttom will go back to Not Enabled if this happens again or you need to trash prefs and databases!

Anyway Very Happy you are up and running again.

FWIW We do this when starting up our pre-production room:

1.Start MACBOOK Pro
2.Start Eucon
3.Start our Artist units when the "E" stop spinning and is enabled

This works everytime and the way I have heard is the correct steps.

Best Regards
Christopher