ProControl or not....

[Reckless Erik]

We are now faced with the un-nerving descision as to whether we go with ProControl or a digital mixer (like the Yamaha DM2000).
We do everything from TV spots to docs to TV drama to corporate presentations. No Film work as yet but we hope to change that in time.
I would welcome a few experience based opinions as to the way forward. Thanks in advance.
Nick

[ekuehnl]

It seems to me that we've finally reached the turning point with control surfaces. The question used to be "Can I do everything I need to do with a control surface?" In my mind the question has become "Why do I need a traditional mixer?"

Mixer downside: if you buy a mixer you will need several interfaces just to get from ProTools to the board and vice versa. How many channels would you need? Limited selection of EQ, Compression, etc. Can't edit automation offline.

Mixer upside: A whole bunch of mic pres (quality?). Better control room monitoring section. Eliminates the need to run EVERYTHING through ProTools.

I'm biased. I think the control surface is an obvious choice these days. I think every digital mixer feature set is a subset of the ProTools feature set. Lots of redundancy. And ProTools HD sounds better than most any digital board I've heard.

My 2¢.

-Eric

[Branko]

I'm biased, too... We've been running a 32-fader ProControl system in our film dubbing stage for more than 3 years now, and I have difficulties to imagine any other way of working. PC has a lousy monitoring section - we built our own paddle box. No need to monitor dir/pec, no need to record stems, just backup everything and enjoy full automation of every mix element from pre-mixing stage to final print mastering. I'm not dreaming about "real" mixing consoles. all I want is more PT/PC systems in my studio, all running simultaneosly in sync.
Branko

[Reckless Erik]

Thanks guys. It would be helpful to from people using midi to control PT functions and parameters. Easy or not so?

[ekuehnl]

Stick with the ethernet controllers: ProControl and Control24. MIDI is too slow for a serious controller.

-Eric

[All Ears]

I have the Panasonic DA 7 dig mixer(no where near as good as the Yamaha) but I have found that the mic pre's on it and most small format dig mixers sound like s****. I have tried using it to control Pro Tools and I would be better off using a mouse...with my feet.

[cheese2]

We have a sizeable ProControl setup, used mostly for feature & tv mixing. Actually, its 2 ProControls bolted together to look like 1 console. Total of 64 faders & 2 edit packs. I would consider the edit packs a must, as the base unit does not quite give you total control of ProTools, well not easily anyway.

The monitor control section is useless. We use a MultiMax & keep its remote handy.

Using a control surface is a very different workflow than using a seperate mixer. You have to approach it with an open mind, and it certainly helps if you have lots of ProTools experience. I've worked with a few "old school" engineers who just couldnt figure it out.

We also have a hui midi controller, which is fine for what it is, which is small. midi is also much more of a pain to set up, having to deal with OMS and all. Once its set up, it does seem to communicate reliably.

Finally, if you're considering the idea of working without stems, just doing a total mix recall with all the automation and such, this can be done, but we have found it much easier to work with a stem recorder. Something like an MX-24 or an MMR unit (if you're rich) wont slow you down.

Cheese2

[Bill of the Top]

Thank you Erik for posting this question because I am in sort of exactly the same situation as you are.
Interesting and helpful replies. They make me wonder why exactly the monitor section of the PC is useless. Could someone elaborate on that a bit?

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Bill

[Reckless Erik]

Thanks for the further responses.

Cheese, by "stem recording" do you mean recording sfx, foley , dialog ,music etc.. to a multichannel recorder for remix later or....? I set up the PT mixer in such a way that all these elements are sent to sub masters which are then balenced for the overall final mix. As a one man band I find this eases the workload.

I downloaded some pdf files about the Yamahas (DM1000 and DM2000). They make interesting reading. The DM1000 is priced at approx $5000 which is less than half that of ProControl. For a 48 ch digital mixer running at 96k thats not bad!

As yet I´m still undecided. If budget were the overriding factor though I believe the Yamaha boys would have the edge.

Keep the dialog going guys and thanks once again

Nick

[ekuehnl]

The PC monitor section is "useless" for surround because it has a maximum of 8 inputs. And you have to tie up the entire control room capablities to use it, including aux and alternate monitor outputs. Surround monitoring certainly appears to have been an afterthought.

It seems to be adequate for stereo work.

-Eric