New DAD interfaces

[LDS]

Originally Posted by RobertDorn

Let’s wait and see if there perhaps will be a MTRX version of the AX64 with digilink chassis connectors.

I could use the the ADAT connectors for integrating my UAD Apollo setup which I use for production with LUNA a lot. (Yes, I find it more creative and delay compensation hassle-free to produce music with virtual instruments in LUNA then in Pro Tools. But I like pro tools more for mixing and everything ‘zero latency’ audio recording with HDX)
But my monitor speakers need AES.
DAD stated they won’t be doing an ADAT card but they do have an AES card already. So the AX64 can have both ADAT and AES. Thunderbolt 3 on the chassis will do away with the DVS workaround for system audio. And with the new PT ultimate version, if you need more than 64 simultaneous outputs, the Thunderbolt connector will be the ticket for that.

Record audio with HDX, and switch over to the Thunderbolt engine for doing an immersive audio mix, all in one box.

I’d buy such a chassis the moment it will become available.

I had the same thought about Avid possibly releasing new hardware... but part of me thinks this move is all about getting out of audio hardware entirely. Do you ever get the feeling that most of our support plan money is going towards restructuring products and business models with a priority of selling shares to investors? Investors love subscription models. It sings out loudly 'Regular income, low overhead'. Hardware is almost the complete opposite. Investors don't care if hardware sales disappear... as long as share prices rise.

It just seems a bit contrary to me, for Avid to allow Pro Tools to suddenly use 256 channels of coreaudio I/O from a variety of manufacturers if they are also about to bring a new TB/Digilink device to market that offers essentially the same thing. Part of me hopes that there is something new and interesting on the horizon. Like a HDX expansion card for the MTRX. Bypass Digilink altogether. Interface it with TB. Have the usual 9-pin sync peripherals onboard.

But really... I think this is probably the wind down of Avid audio hardware.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by LDS

Makes you wonder why tossing 2, 3, 4 HD native PCIe cards into a system couldn't just provide 128, 192, 256 channels of Digilink natively.

They never designed HD Native to do this, you would need interconnect between cards and hardware to support that "aggregation" and provide time sync etc. as well as likely needed Maybe the kool-aid drinking then though it was to protect the HDX market by crippling HD Native. Trouble with that is it's not yourself you should really be focusing on competing with.

I agree with your other post and I hope you are right that this is more a move of Avid exiting the hardware market (even if that's opposite to your hope). At least with high end interfaces I am not sur Avid shoudl invest efforts there, Dadman is great but comes from DAD. Maybe nothing wrong with working with third parties (like DAD) as they continue to innovate independently. I also wonder how strong a position folks like DAD, UAD, and Blackmagic Design and other are in here. Avid can't slow them them down, and if Avis picks an OEM partner it's hard to see how partner does not end up the real winner with quite a lot of negotiation power. Yes it's ironic that those who can innovate in hardware and software seem to be growing well, Avid had kinda given up on that and I think had to. (and I don't really count Carbon, not sure that's a product with long legs given its limited compatibility, lack of expansion at least now, etc.). I'd just rather see Avid focus on doing the best it can with software in a more open hardware ecosystem. Feel some of the recent changes are in the right direction.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

They never designed HD Native to do this, you would need interconnect between cards and hardware to support that "aggregation" and provide time sync etc. as well as likely needed Maybe the kool-aid drinking then though it was to protect the HDX market by crippling HD Native. Trouble with that is it's not yourself you should really be focusing on competing with.

I think it is really just a software and driver related limitation more than anything. There are only a handful of cards that really need physical internal links between them to achieve aggregation, and they all seem to have onboard DSP and a need to share sync and audio internally in lieu of external physical connections.

Obviously that isn't the case with stuff by companies like RME or multiple HD Native devices, because they never share audio between cards. RME stuff has an internal wordclock connection, but it isn't necessary to use. You can do it externally too. HD Native cards already operate in master/slave modes, and you can already connect multiple to a single DAD device just fine.

I agree with your other post and I hope you are right that this is more a move of Avid exiting the hardware market (even if that's opposite to your hope). At least with high end interfaces I am not sur Avid shoudl invest efforts there, Dadman is great but comes from DAD. Maybe nothing wrong with working with third parties (like DAD) as they continue to innovate independently. I also wonder how strong a position folks like DAD, UAD, and Blackmagic Design and other are in here. Avid can't slow them them down, and if Avis picks an OEM partner it's hard to see how partner does not end up the real winner with quite a lot of negotiation power. Yes it's ironic that those who can innovate in hardware and software seem to be growing well, Avid had kinda given up on that and I think had to. (and I don't really count Carbon, not sure that's a product with long legs given its limited compatibility, lack of expansion at least now, etc.). I'd just rather see Avid focus on doing the best it can with software in a more open hardware ecosystem. Feel some of the recent changes are in the right direction.

Avid really needs to invest money in interfaces, because few others really provide such convenient solutions to some simple audio problems. Take a HD native card, HD sync and Omni. ADAT, SPDIF, AES, Analogue, Mic Pres, Monitor controller, fold downs, Cue sends and controls, plus MTC, Video sync, AES11, Workclock, LTC...

It is a decade old, and you can buy the whole kit for $1500. Everyone seems fixated on native interfaces... but most of them are pretty stale. UAD want to charge the price of a MTRX base unit for an Apollo, but can't ever seem move passed just two channels of AES. I'm a big proponent of DAD stuff because it jams huge amounts of functionality into such small devices, but they aren't really priced in the same way as most native interfaces. Nobody is running out to buy an AX64 to replace most native interfaces, because the cost of expansion cards makes them very premium products.

It is purely speculation on my part about Avid vacating hardware. They might suddenly release different devices for Artist, Studio and Ultimate versions. The 256 channel coreaudio change probably isn't so much about 'opening' up Pro Tools as it is providing better solutions for mixing with Atmos RMUs. Heck, Dolby might even release a 256 channel Atmos renderer update tomorrow, specifically for theatrical RMUs.

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by LDS

I had the same thought about Avid possibly releasing new hardware... but part of me thinks this move is all about getting out of audio hardware entirely. Do you ever get the feeling that most of our support plan money is going towards restructuring products and business models with a priority of selling shares to investors? Investors love subscription models. It sings out loudly 'Regular income, low overhead'. Hardware is almost the complete opposite. Investors don't care if hardware sales disappear... as long as share prices rise.

It just seems a bit contrary to me, for Avid to allow Pro Tools to suddenly use 256 channels of coreaudio I/O from a variety of manufacturers if they are also about to bring a new TB/Digilink device to market that offers essentially the same thing. Part of me hopes that there is something new and interesting on the horizon. Like a HDX expansion card for the MTRX. Bypass Digilink altogether. Interface it with TB. Have the usual 9-pin sync peripherals onboard.

But really... I think this is probably the wind down of Avid audio hardware.

I hear what you say, though I’m not worried about HDX itself, as they just last year introduced the HDX hybrid engine. Low latency tracking paths that omit the native sample buffer are still amazing these days and the only way to get the ‘tracking through a console’ feel.
An HDX option card for a AX64 would be quite an interesting approach indeed:))
Making the core of the audio interface native, with HDX processing power added as an option module in the native box.

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by RobertDorn

I hear what you say, though I’m not worried about HDX itself, as they just last year introduced the HDX hybrid engine. Low latency tracking paths that omit the native sample buffer are still amazing these days and the only way to get the ‘tracking through a console’ feel.
An HDX option card for a AX64 would be quite an interesting approach indeed:))
Making the core of the audio interface native, with HDX processing power added as an option module in the native box.

What if they put Carbon on a MTRX card? They’d get to reuse a lot of their existing investment, might be enough DSP for tracking, and the I/O would simply be provided by the MTRX switch itself.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

What if they put Carbon on a MTRX card? They’d get to reuse a lot of their existing investment, might be enough DSP for tracking, and the I/O would simply be provided by the MTRX switch itself.

You would think, given how small a 10 year old HD Native TB PCB is, that they could quote easily consolidate it down into a double slot 128 channel MTRX expansion card. Why bother with the digilink I/O if you can just jam the whole thing into the MTRX.


Given how low latency the new DAD TB stuff is though... I vote DAD handle it!

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

What if they put Carbon on a MTRX card? They’d get to reuse a lot of their existing investment, might be enough DSP for tracking, and the I/O would simply be provided by the MTRX switch itself.

This would be awesome! So far DAD / Jan has been ignoring every question about if there will be a MTRX / Avid equivalent of the new AX64. Which makes me wonder if perhaps something might be in the works. He doesn’t seem to say no, but he can’t confirm anything either in that case:)

[BScout]

Originally Posted by RobertDorn

This would be awesome! So far DAD / Jan has been ignoring every question about if there will be a MTRX / Avid equivalent of the new AX64. Which makes me wonder if perhaps something might be in the works. He doesn’t seem to say no, but he can’t confirm anything either in that case:)

Pretty sure Avid-branded products and future Avid-branded products have to be announced by Avid and not third-parties.
Even if they are the OEM.

Even if it was going to happen or not happen, DAD/NTP couldn't talk about it. It would be a bad business-to-business contract between the companies otherwise.

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by LDS

You would think, given how small a 10 year old HD Native TB PCB is, that they could quote easily consolidate it down into a double slot 128 channel MTRX expansion card. Why bother with the digilink I/O if you can just jam the whole thing into the MTRX.

Given how low latency the new DAD TB stuff is though... I vote DAD handle it!

What you have proposed is pretty much the AX64 :)

The only thing HD Native has going for it relatively is the 64x2 LLM mixer, but perhaps with a bit of work Pro Tools could coax DADman into configuring same.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

What you have proposed is pretty much the AX64 :)

The only thing HD Native has going for it relatively is the 64x2 LLM mixer, but perhaps with a bit of work Pro Tools could coax DADman into configuring same.

You can't move to an AX64 without losing a bunch of functionality though. No video sync peripheral ports, no digilink expansion options, no onboard AES. I wonder where the new Avid Sync box sits in with all this, or... maybe it just doesn't.