Intermediate question regarding the use of more than one Master Fader

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by albee1952

My 2 cents:
#2-If you are concerned about clipping, work in the 32 bit mode for the massive increase in headroom.

Just a friendly correction on this point.
You cannot NOT work in 32-bit mode in Pro Tools. The mixer is 32/64 bit all the time.

The option to have your session running at 16/24/32 is purely referring to the creation of files. In other words you can have a 16-bit session where all your files will be recorded at 16 bit resolution, but the moment you move any fader or apply any processing, you are outputting a 32-bit stream.

This is easy to prove with a bit meter/scope.
So rest assured that you are working with ridiculous headroom at all times!

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

Just a friendly correction on this point.
You cannot NOT work in 32-bit mode in Pro Tools. The mixer is 32/64 bit all the time.
The option to have your session running at 16/24/32 is purely referring to the creation of files. In other words you can have a 16-bit session where all your files will be recorded at 16 bit resolution, but the moment you move any fader or apply any processing, you are outputting a 32-bit stream.
This is easy to prove with a bit meter/scope.
So rest assured that you are working with ridiculous headroom at all times!

Of course, you're right. Still, the moment you 'print' audio to a new track in a 16bit session, the file will be 16bit, so I guess it might distort on playback.

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

Of course, you're right. Still, the moment you 'print' audio to a new track in a 16bit session, the file will be 16bit, so I guess it might distort on playback.

That's a fair and true point.
But as long as you reduce your output to below 0dB FS - which is where you should be working anyway - it will print fine.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

A masterfader in PT is a visualization of a physical output.

*ANY* output, whether physical or logical (buss).

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

plugins being pre-fader

*POST* fader

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by JFreak

*ANY* output, whether physical or logical (buss).
*POST* fader

Yea. Thanks
Back to put things right, are you?
Just kidding.
Welcome back and I hope you're well, Janne.

[take77]

JFreaks's timeliness is 64 bit and never clips.

Or never oversteps, I should say...

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

I hope you're well, Janne.

Thanks. Slight nerval problem with my hands still preventing to type with 10 finger system, but I suppose I will survive...

[take77]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Thanks for the kind words Mike!

You're Welcome Dave!

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

Just a friendly correction on this point.
You cannot NOT work in 32-bit mode in Pro Tools. The mixer is 32/64 bit all the time.

The option to have your session running at 16/24/32 is purely referring to the creation of files. In other words you can have a 16-bit session where all your files will be recorded at 16 bit resolution, but the moment you move any fader or apply any processing, you are outputting a 32-bit stream.

This is easy to prove with a bit meter/scope.
So rest assured that you are working with ridiculous headroom at all times!

I was referring to the option when you create a new session(screen shot), though I may not have full understanding on some stuff that happens "under the hood". Ridiculous headroom or not, it is possible to push things to the point where they sound distorted, but I suppose that could be the converters on the way out, or some plugin(s). Everyone has my blessing on correcting me

[take77]

It's all cool Dave:)

All of this answered my question which really came from reading an article that was written in the days of PT LE!
Since there is the option to create any number of Master faders I became curious as to why.

Then I read the section on Master faders in the PT ref guide and it mentioned using a Master fader to taper multiple signals going into an aux when sub-mixing. So I thought maybe that article wasn't entirely out of date.
Hence, my post.

I do understand that 32/64 bit processing provides more than ample headroom so maybe they should update that part of the ref guide on clipping an aux channel saying this is less of a concern with the latest processing ability.
I also saw someone post about how an aux channel in their session wouldn't red light anymore.
I'll have to read that again but I understand it's because of 32/64bit processing under the hood.

You guys also answered my question as to how audio is still passed without a Master fader.

There's been times I've instantiated an instrument and started playing forgetting to employ a Master fader.
It piqued my curiosity and I started thinking maybe having a Master fader had something to do with making the PT audio engine work more efficiently or something.
Then wondering if an MF is required to taper the signal (change the word length) or sum the signals digitally. IDK

I see how it's more a visual than anything and that multiple Master faders are also used to send signals to outboard gear.

Anyhow, my post was more out of curiosity than concern about clipping.
Using PT with one Master fader works fine for my songwriting & demo sessions.

Thanks for sharing your insights!
You guys are the business.

And just to clarify on Ben's behalf:

Originally Posted by JFreak

*POST* fader

I believe Ben was referring to pre-fader processing as the option one has when using an Aux as a Master as opposed to using a traditional Master with post-processing:

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

I've always used an aux as my master. I route everything thru it and it goes to my main outs. I could have not had a masterfader at all, just the aux, but I usually crate one just to have a volume control, any "masterfader plugins" goes on the aux, and I keep the aux fader at -0db.

It has several advantages, plugins being pre-fader, more flexible routing ++.

And yes, pre & post-processing logistics are yet another reason whether or not to opt for an additional Master.

Thanks for your input Jannes.