Word Clock: Apogee Big Ben vs. Digi Sync I/O vs. UA 2192

[SoundReplay]

Another cry for help ! - I tell you quickly the background ... -

Today I went to a big "Music Store" in Germany, buying some Vovox Microphone cables. Why ? Because I really want to improve my microphone sound recording (Neumann U87Ai with Focusrite RED 7).

Why ? Because lately, I randomly experience some soft clicking in my audio signal when recording A/D signals... So I thought, should be these cheap cabling...

Now, I have not tested yet these "nice looking VOVOX cables" - I will tell you tomorrow if the quality has indeed improved - but this very friendly "Music Store" engineer told me that this could be a WORD CLOCKING issue... He suggested that:

1. using an external word reference clock would improve the sound of my Digidesign 192I/O convertors
2. a very nice one is the Apogee Big Ben (1.465 euro ) - but the Rolls Royce is the Universal Audio 2192 (2.849 euro )

A few questions though:

1. Do you agree on his recommendation ?
2. What about the Digidesign SYNC I/O ?
3. Why do I have these soft clicks all of a sudden on my Pro Tools HD2 (using 1 192I/O and 1 PRE - also connected via AES/EBU are a TC Electronic Finalizer and TC Electronic M2000, just FYI)

So, after driving 2 hours back to Belgium, I had some time to think about this word clocking issue... and started to look at these hardware devices...

Who can help me out here... and who is using these outboard clocking devices ? Is it REALLY worthwhile investing in these things ????

So many respected thank you's,

Dirk

[kptkarl]

Brainstorm DCD-8 is also one you should look into. Especially if you require video reference, with the VSG-4 option. http://www.brainstormtime.com/dcd8.php.
Cheap cabling with word clock is a big no no as well.

[P A M]

Another cry for help ! - I tell you quickly the background ... -

Today I went to a big "Music Store" in Germany, buying some Vovox Microphone cables. Why ? Because I really want to improve my microphone sound recording (Neumann U87Ai with Focusrite RED 7).

Why ? Because lately, I randomly experience some soft clicking in my audio signal when recording A/D signals... So I thought, should be these cheap cabling...

Now, I have not tested yet these "nice looking VOVOX cables" - I will tell you tomorrow if the quality has indeed improved - but this very friendly "Music Store" engineer told me that this could be a WORD CLOCKING issue... He suggested that:

1. using an external word reference clock would improve the sound of my Digidesign 192I/O convertors
2. a very nice one is the Apogee Big Ben (1.465 euro ) - but the Rolls Royce is the Universal Audio 2192 (2.849 euro )

A few questions though:

1. Do you agree on his recommendation ?
2. What about the Digidesign SYNC I/O ?
3. Why do I have these soft clicks all of a sudden on my Pro Tools HD2 (using 1 192I/O and 1 PRE - also connected via AES/EBU are a TC Electronic Finalizer and TC Electronic M2000, just FYI)

So, after driving 2 hours back to Belgium, I had some time to think about this word clocking issue... and started to look at these hardware devices...

Who can help me out here... and who is using these outboard clocking devices ? Is it REALLY worthwhile investing in these things ????

So many respected thank you's,

Dirk

Something is wrong, - altho I like the BigBen for clocking digital signals you should not have any problems with just the 192´s own clock.
I assume that its PT that is clock for the system..? try to turn off the two TC-units - does the clicking dissapear?

It is posible that its not even a clock-issue, - have you checked your hard-drives lately? also check the ram, - do you have enough ram?, - is it ok?

Cheers

[Craig F]

is the clicking just with the mic and pre listed?
if it is it could be a component starting to fail

[MikeOlson]

Some mic pre's can click randomly due to component problems. I've seen this with high end-high gain gear such as Avalon from time to time.

Also, buying an expensive word clock generator will not improve the sound quality of a Digi 192 interface. This was the case with 888's, but the entire line of HD interfaces use a PLL (phase locked loop) for internal clocking (hence the loop sync connections.) Therefore, the 192 will always sound the same, no matter what the clock source is, Sync IO, Big Ben etc.

I won't argue that having a dedicated clock generator is handy, especially when using other external equipment and absolutely necessary when working with video equipment, but they will not affect the conversion quality of the HD interfaces.

I would look toward either the mic pre, or the digital effects processors you have connected to the digital in's. I would send word clock to these units if they can accept it. Otherwise, make sure the effects units are set to clock off their digital inputs from the 192.

[SoundReplay]

Hi, so here's the verdict after some intensive testing. This is what I tried:

1. First I recorded some audio from a Neumann U87Ai via a Focusrite RED7. And yes, the clicking was there. Here's a repeated sample of the click: Neumann U87Ai click

2. I did the same but this time with the Digidesign PRE as pre-amp. And yes, same result. So I can already exclude a failure with the RED7

3. I recorded simultaneously the U87Ai, an Audio Technica AT4033 and an AKG S1000, all through the Digidesign PRE. I was shocked that only the Neumann clicked

4. So I thought, hopefully it is the cable or something else. I took the brand new VOVOX cable (shielded) and did the same test. I also compared the original cable with the VOVOX and analyzed it with PAZ. As you can see, the VOVOX cable has a bit more high end frequency. On the picture, the VOVOX one is the front one (highlighted).

VOVOX Frequency Comparison

No clicks so far. I recorded more than 15 minutes of audio without any clicks or pops. I thought, YES , I need to buy more VOVOX. But my happiness only lasted for 15 minutes, because the clicks re-appeared.

5. So I started to disconnect all AES/EBU cables to external devices (I am using BTW the original Digidesign cabling),
6. I deleted the preference folders
7. I checked the clocking of the Presonus Central Station,
8. I swapped the cabling on the 192i/o from -10db to +4db
9. restarted my MAC... verified the disk (with disk utility) but still it did not solve the problem.

So here I am stuck with 2 questions:

1. My Neumann U87Ai has a failure
2. It is a clocking problem, but why is the Neumann more sensitive to it ?

Thanks already for the suggestions ... any more is really appreciated !

Dirk

[emluper]

Dirk,

I would take my U87 in for repair. A clocking problem wouldn't show up JUST in the Neumann.
Sorry about your mic but at least you know what it is now.

Erik