someone deleted my post....

[strunz0]

My post was delted so i am going to post it again...very wierd...


I am a nuendo user thinking about making the large money plunge in to the pro tools HD system.

Anyways, I always wondered why people used pro tools on a PC. I mean I used Nuendo on a PC because it was engineered from the beginning to be a PC program, and using it on the MAC would just be a second hand port over.

Thats what pro tools on a pc isn`t it? Just a port from the mac? I have noticed that the pc platform gets terrible plugin support, late updates from digidesign, and the short end of every stick.

Why do you all use pro tools on a PC? I mean it cant be the money because if you have 20-30K to spend on a pro tools system I am sure you didn`t cheap out on the computer.

And speed is a non issue because I worked in NYC and used pro tools and saw up to 60 tracks a time with no burps.

So why did you all decide to support a clearly less supported and updated platform?

I am really curious, and am not looking to start any trouble. Thanks.

-Dan

[froyo]

Hello. In my experience, there are two things that will get posts deleted quickly. One is multiple posts on the exact same subject on different forums by the same user. In other words, if you posted this exact thread on other forums they will delete all except one, and leave it in what they consider to be the most appropriate forum. Number two, any discussion on illegal software will get you deleted most of the time, whether you are pro or con. OK now as to your questions

Why do you all use pro tools on a PC?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is directed at users. As far as I can tell the great majority of Pro Tools users choose it because of the software. They are willing to sacrifice options in hardware, plug ins or any other limitation to use what they consider to be superior software. Another reason is to have compatibility with a large user base in the marketplace.

So why did you all decide to support a clearly less supported and updated platform?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well that question is directed towards Digidesign and I suppose only they can answer. Unless you are directing that question to users, and by 'supporting' you mean financially by buying the product, in which case I would refer you to the first question.

Thats what pro tools on a pc isn`t it? Just a port from the mac? I have noticed that the pc platform gets terrible plugin support, late updates from digidesign, and the short end of every stick.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well Pro Tools, and its predecessors, were Mac only up until about '99 I believe. And ever since then we have heard the party line from Digidesign. We are committed to both platforms, we fully intend to offer an equal product on our end, third party developements (re: plug ins) are not up to us, etc. However, the reality of what has happened is that, as you describe, the PC version is somehow always lagging behind. For historical context, the great majority of professional audio, video and graphics software was Mac only for the longest time.

Here is my opinion on the subject, which I have formed by using Digidesign for years, and by having in depth conversations with Digidesign employees. They were created as a Mac only company. They decided to go PC. However, they probably didn't realize at the time how difficult it would be for them as a company to make this transition. After all, their entire development infrastructure was built on Mac. Their know how and people were Mac. The time and money that is needed for them to allocate to truly make them an equal product has not been done up until now.

The latest example of this DV through Firewire. This is not possible on the PC with Pro Tools. To be fair, it's a limitation of the QuickTime player that is out of their control (re:Apple). But I believe it speaks to the way they develop for the PC. In order for this to work they probably have to implement another player application, such as Windows Media Player, or someting that is Direct Show compatible. Which thay may do eventually. And there are workarounds. But those are left up to the user, not to Digidesign as a company.

However by the time this happens it will have been a year or two years or more that the Mac version had this capability. If they were serious about the PC they would taken the time and money involved to get it right the first time out. But as it happens just about every time on the PC version, the answer is not right now, hopefully in the future...

This last point, to be fair again though, does involve other factors. Most importantly the installed base and market economics. TDM systems are their bread and butter most important client. Before they had a native market they were already the standard in Post. TDM systems later became the standard in professional music studios, or at least as ubiquitous as anything else. If they decided to drop their native market right now, their bread and butter TDM systems would still make them quite profitable.

Virtually 100% of TDM sales and systems are Mac. So you do the math. Which one do you think they are going to concentrate their efforts on? And if you couple that with the fact that they are at their core a Mac developer, you will see what is going on. If however, PC buyers would start buying a significant amount of TDM systems I am sure you would see changes.

Do I feel Digidesign truly wants to offer an equal product? Yes. Do I think that is going to happen any time soon? Unfortunately not for the reasons I cited, amongst others that are not in their control. Do I feel that by and large, for most users or to a significant portion of them, the functionality of the software is basically the same? Yes. I think most people are choosing their platform for OS reasons, not Pro Tools reasons. I use them in both versions. They are pretty much the same. Except for some very annoying little things like the DV through Firewire deal. It is up to each individual to decide how big a deal those things are, if they are dealbreakers or not.

For the record, I am a Nuendo user also, although not as proficient. And Nuendo also has had the same DV through Firewire problem until recently. They have solved it but not with QuickTime. I believe they solved it by implementing a different solution to their different player applications besides QuickTime.

[strunz0]

thanks for your response...however you did not really answer it in any way...

My question is to Pro Tools TDM system users, using windows.

Why do you use such a powerful and expensive system on a platform that is not properly supported

I am by no means bashing digi...if i were them i would have never released a PC version...i think they did it to leave their options open incase mac ever went belly up.

[froyo]

By strunz0

thanks for your response...however you did not really answer it in any way...

My question is to Pro Tools TDM system users, using windows.

Why do you use such a powerful and expensive system on a platform that is not properly supported

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello. I'm confused. I thought I was very clear on that. I will repost it

That is directed at users. As far as I can tell the great majority of Pro Tools users choose it because of the software. They are willing to sacrifice options in hardware, plug ins or any other limitation to use what they consider to be superior software. Another reason is to have compatibility with a large user base in the marketplace.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought it was very clear that I had said that in my opinion most people buy it for the software, and in lesser terms for comaptibility. What do you mean I did not answer it any way?

[strunz0]

ummm...right....th software..but why would someone want to use the software on a platform that is not supported well?

[froyo]

Hello. Maybe you are not reading it completely, not understanding or just not agreeing. I have posted it twice. Let me do it again.

They are willing to sacrifice options in hardware, plug ins or any other limitation to use what they consider to be superior software. Another reason is to have compatibility with a large user base in the marketplace.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have answered it twice. What part of the above do you not understand? It's one thing if you disagree. But you seem to not be undersatnding what I have said three times now.

[Dale-c]

It seems to me that there is a growing user base of LE users on PCs, largely I would think because people using LE are more likely to buy an interface for there existing computer, or at least replace the computer that they do everything else on to run Pro Tools as well.
TDM users seem more likely to have a scpecific system for recording and when tens of thousands of dollars for a system $2500 for a Mac is pretty insignificant. Also, there isn't as much concern with power since it isn't host based anyway.
For me I use a Mac mostly because I like them better. Everything I do on it could be done just as well on a PC now that 6.1 is out, but even then, I have been using 6 for about four months longer than I could have on a Mac, and when I got my Mbox it was Mac only. The 002 rack was mac only at first as well so there does still seem to be a slight Mac advantage in the LE market but there are other factors such as speed and price that favor Win XP for LE. I see a lot of pros and cons with LE and the market shows that with a large user base for both platforms. However I see no advantage whatsover for TDM on the PC and I guess that is the question of the post. I guess some people just prefer Windows because that is what they are used to.

[strunz0]

ok dude...u posted it three times, and three times you didn`t answer my question. It is you that is having a problem with the understanding.

Eventhough a PC user would use it for the software, it is the software that is the least supported...late updates, poor 3rd party plugins, and everything else concerning software.

So please...try and understand my question before you have the nerve to answer it three times wrong.

[froyo]

Hello. Well that I can't answer for anyone else. In my case it was to have compatibility and ease of use with other PC software like Logic (back then), Gigastudio, Sound Forge, etc. Chill out. That is one other way to get deleted. To start becoming abusive or belligerent. Sorry for the miscommunication. We also have a Mac TDM system.

[nikki-k]

Hi! I have used Win based machines since around '91. I got a Mac SE30 years ago, and it sits in its carry bag. I went Mac when I bought my HD3/192 system, because it was the only option at the time. After the PC (Win XP) side seemed close to catching up, I jumped ship back to PC for my TDM system. No regrets whatsoever.

I am sorry if I offend anyone, but I do not want to take time out to learn Mac OS and be able to "use it" at the level I use Windows. That would be months of time, not just a weekend of RTFM. Without having the knowledge of the OS I was working on, things that I do with Windows were either impossible, or very difficult because I would have to stop, call the one person I know in my town who has a Mac, ask him, and if he didnt know, it was look online, or wait til morning and call someone out of town.

So, it is familiarity with the OS for me foremost. Balancing that is the 3rd party stuff. Yes, the Win XP side is missing some. That gap closes a little more as time goes on. However, I looked at what I use for plug-ins, which ones I would be likely to buy over the next 2-3 years (at the time), and what else I would have to sacrifice in swapping platforms. McDSP is one of the very few companies I would like to have had for Win XP TDM. Other than that, every other plug is either on Win XP now, or will be VERY soon (as I figured, rightly so...and luckily...)

Also, everyone always asks, "Why TDM??? So expensive. I can do more tracks via host!" Well, it isnt so much the track count. I wont be using over 128 actively-voiced tracks this year, so track count is moot. Plug-ins. Ahhh! Well- the host-based can run say- 200 plug-ins. Hmmm- DUH!!! SO can I!!! SAME computer. BUT! I also get- a truckload I can add ON TOP OF THAT via TDM.

MIDI stuff on PT is catching up slowly but surely. Remember, PT was originally cast as an Audio workstation...not a MIDI workstation. And slowly adding in MIDI features WITHOUT disturbing the Audio side that is imperative to most of the pro users (their bread & butter)is priority one when it comes to those additions. The PC side has lagged behind in things, but 6.1 is finally seeing a more even playing field.

I get more done with my HD3 on a Win XP machine than I did with a Mac, simply because all the stuff outside of recording and mixing with the app is second nature to me. I am not part of a "professional installation," so I have no problems with needing to have what everyone else does. I am not scoring to film, picture, etc, so any downfalls per OS on that side do not affect me either. If I owned a pro studio, with clients bringing in outside engineers, producers, etc, I would have stayed Mac, bit the bullet, and learned the OS. But, I would in essence be getting paid to do it [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

With the onset of OS-X only PT for Mac users, they are now seeing semi-rough times. I feel for them, as I went thru the same thing when WIndows went from 3.1 to '95. What a mess that was! Win XP is finally stable enough for me that I can fully trust PT TDM & LE on this OS. I would not have made this move for Win 2k in it's early stages, nor would have done it on Win ME or earlier. Ugh...

HUI works great for me, so does PT. Everything else is outside the "box" for me, so what I run on does not affect that. I "mix in the box," and have not found any problems with it yet.

I hope that answers what you were asking. Sorry for the extremely long post, but I wanted to include as much as possible in one stroke [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] It is simply my opinion, and it comes from someone who is completely at home with Win XP, and building/troubleshooting/maintaining PC's. And for me the troubleshooting is minute, maintaining is simply a matter of keeping drives defragged, cleaning the registry every so often, and cleaning dead files and links within the OS. So, 99% of my time is happy time [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] If a person does not know how to tear down and assemble a PC ground up, install Win XP PROPERLY, update it if needed, and keep it streamlined for audio, I highly suggest goin Mac. If someone has no experience on the Windows OS, save yourself some headaches (knowledge and experience are my aspirin there [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ) and grab a Mac. Gonna work with others? Want to be like "the big boys?" Go Mac.