Delay Compensation / Recording Issues

[gregjfrancis]

I'm having an issue that I believe has to do with delay compensation. I have a song that is basically a finished mix, and I need to record a shaker. I record it and it feels like I'm performing in time while I'm tracking, but then upon playback it's almost a 16th note behind everything else. I have lots of plugins running, but no error messages or cpu overloads.

I only started noticing this after updating to Pro Tools Studio (most recent version). Prior to updating, I was using Pro Tools 11. I feel like there have been countless times that I've recorded new material into a fully mixed session and have never had to de-activate any plugins. I'm on a Windows 10 PC, using an Antelope Orion 32. Pro Tools is always set to 1024 buffer size and I always do direct monitoring through the Orion. I will be building a new PC in the next couple of months with much more robust components.

Any tips or thoughts would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[Darryl Ramm]

Welcome to DUC.

The latency is exactly how many samples @ what sample rates. Exact latency often is a direct clue to what is going on. 1/16 note tells us nothing. Set the timeline in sample mode and click and drag the timeline cursor out between events... what does the cursor length display tell you up top of the edit window?

You got latency inducing plugins on the master fader? Which ones? And what are their expected latency in samples @ the session sample rate. ADC does not and cannot (time travel has not been invented) correct for plugin latency on master faders.

What happens if you reduce the IO buffer size?

[lesbrunn]

Originally Posted by gregjfrancis

I'm having an issue that I believe has to do with delay compensation. I have a song that is basically a finished mix, and I need to record a shaker. I record it and it feels like I'm performing in time while I'm tracking, but then upon playback it's almost a 16th note behind everything else. I have lots of plugins running, but no error messages or cpu overloads.

I only started noticing this after updating to Pro Tools Studio (most recent version). Prior to updating, I was using Pro Tools 11. I feel like there have been countless times that I've recorded new material into a fully mixed session and have never had to de-activate any plugins. I'm on a Windows 10 PC, using an Antelope Orion 32. Pro Tools is always set to 1024 buffer size and I always do direct monitoring through the Orion. I will be building a new PC in the next couple of months with much more robust components.

Any tips or thoughts would be much appreciated! Thanks!

There are a few things you can try depending on the exact scenario. Are you recording midi data? Trash prefs. Disable master fader plugins temporarily. Freeze tracks. Buffer 64, offset to -64 in midi preferences.

[gregjfrancis]

Thanks for your replies.

I tried recording again last night with all plugins on the master bus made inactive. The guitar that I was trying to record was still about 3000 samples late after recording. I'm recording at 24/48kHz.

What is most confusing is that I used to always record into sessions that had full mastering chains active on the master bus and never had this issue. It started once I updated to Pro Tools Studio 2022 a few weeks back.

And no, I'm recording any midi and there is no midi in the session.

[albee1952]

What is your playback buffer set at? I set it to 64 when tracking and have no issues. Showing Delay Compensation(View>Mix Window) is the best way to discover how much latency plugins are adding(if any). Many will add none, while others may add hundreds or thousands of samples of latency. Note that Master track plugins are not compensated for, so be careful what plugins you use there as that only adds to your problem

[gregjfrancis]

My playback buffer is set at 1024. I've always had it at this setting though and never experienced this issue until upgrading from PT11 to PT Studio 2022. I'll try a lower buffer next time I'm at my studio. Thanks

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by gregjfrancis

My playback buffer is set at 1024. I've always had it at this setting though and never experienced this issue until upgrading from PT11 to PT Studio 2022. I'll try a lower buffer next time I'm at my studio. Thanks

With a high buffer, the only way(on any native system) to record without latency would be with some kind of hardware(direct input) monitoring. I'm not sure if the Orion software allows for this. Remember that the way ADC(delay compensation) works is to make everything later, to match the track with the most latency(so ADC never eliminates latency, it compensates so all tracks stay in alignment with each other). Here are some ways that latency happens:
1-playback buffer(higher=more latency, lower=less latency).
2-A>D and D>A conversion(lower sample rates are around 1.2ms, higher sample rates have less).
3-plugins(some have zero, while others have hundreds or thousands of samples of latency).
4-remember that plugins on a Master track are not compensated for(because they usually do not need to be).

[Ben Jenssen]

Well, I was always under the impression that PT automatically compensates for whatever size buffer you had set, and that the total delay compensation was added to that, and simply moved the recorded audio back by those two factors put together, after recording stopped. Simple maths. Things like "Low latency Monitoring" and recording with small buffer size were only necessary to avoid monitoring delay on the signal being recorded.

Sounds to me like this function isn't working, with the people having issues.

[gregjfrancis]

Originally Posted by albee1952

With a high buffer, the only way(on any native system) to record without latency would be with some kind of hardware(direct input) monitoring. I'm not sure if the Orion software allows for this. Remember that the way ADC(delay compensation) works is to make everything later, to match the track with the most latency(so ADC never eliminates latency, it compensates so all tracks stay in alignment with each other). Here are some ways that latency happens:
1-playback buffer(higher=more latency, lower=less latency).
2-A>D and D>A conversion(lower sample rates are around 1.2ms, higher sample rates have less).
3-plugins(some have zero, while others have hundreds or thousands of samples of latency).
4-remember that plugins on a Master track are not compensated for(because they usually do not need to be).

I am in fact using direct monitoring through my Orion 32 (low latency monitoring is active in Pro Tools). Like Ben said, I've always thought that PT automatically compensates for all of this. It certainly used to before I upgraded to the most recent Pro Tools.

[gregjfrancis]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

Well, I was always under the impression that PT automatically compensates for whatever size buffer you had set, and that the total delay compensation was added to that, and simply moved the recorded audio back by those two factors put together, after recording stopped. Simple maths. Things like "Low latency Monitoring" and recording with small buffer size were only necessary to avoid monitoring delay on the signal being recorded.

Sounds to me like this function isn't working, with the people having issues.

I've always thought this too. And that's how it was working for me until I updated to the newest version of PT. I use direct monitoring with my Orion 32 to avoid hearing latency while tracking.