Compression on Guitar Recordings

[Matt Darcy]

A while ago, I made a post about a microphone problem I was having, which was solved (thank you).

In the course of that discussion a few people mentioned about the sound of recorded guitars on albums using amazing amounts of compression to get the sound we are so used to hearing these days, now I am aware of this from my studio days, and to an extent have done this before, but normally as a "player" rather than a recorder.

What are peoples views on managing the guitar tone on recordings, I have the "live" tone just how I like it, but recording it sounds scrappy, I'd like to polish it a little more, what techniques do you use, what compression plugins, or do you focus on hardware solutions ? are there any rules eg: less drive, = more compression required, higher mid sounds = less need,

Just asking general advice and opinions on obtaining a tidy sound of that nice live tone.

[ranas]

I dont know what is your tone or favorite sound, but I would try to main things. First you can record directly with a valve or tube emulator, can be vox tonelab for example or a plug in (these will compress the signal). the other thing is making a recording with 2 or 3 mics if you want to use the sound of your guitar amp, and then I would try to simulate the live enviroment with some reverb. If you want to compress, I would do this in pro tools after the signal is recorded. there are a lot of books about mixing and how to add compresion, but keep in mind that to my impresion the compresion should be not to much, and you should take care of the velocity or time at the compressor works (it has other names depending the plug in).
hope this helps, but as I told you I dont know your sound.

[Matt Darcy]

thats very interesting feedback thank you,

I'm using a good mix of tube amps - so I'd rather not use things like tube amps sims or plugins, but your comment on using multiple mics is interesting. I'm currently reading a short book about mic'ing up guitar amps in specifics, so I'm sure I'll get to the multiple mic setup shortly.

If you have a solid suggestion for book on this topic thats not too complex - eg: an introduction rather than advanced book I'd be more than interesting in hearing an opinion.

I have used this technnique before, but again - I just played, I didn't set it up.

As I recal you stagger the two mics and some how match the delay between the sounds. I've also have the two mic right next to each other setup but that was for a live sound rather than recording.

It all gets a hell of a lot more complex when you do more than play.

[ranas]

Well, matt I agree with using real amps. I was only suggesting plug ins to compress the audio after recording.
You can try to record, for example, with a mic a bit far from the amp, or a bit high in the room in order to get the ambience and the diferent resonances (I dont know the word in english) or frecuencies of your amps, and natural refleccions of the room, also on the back of the amps. I suggest you to try diferent things and this will, at the last get the sound you want, I am sure. One important thing is the room behaviour.
Then you can compress, but I would compress the audio only after getting the natural sound I want.
please let me know if this is useful for you, for me it works, some times I get naturl reververation only using mics.
I suppose that with the book you are reading this topics are well explained. better than me!
regards

[Matt Darcy]

The info is very good - thank you.

My actual amp sounds are "good", I'm more than happy with my sounds, it's more translating that sound into the recording.

I think you make an excellent point about the room, and this is a real limiting factor for me, as it's a home studio - not a acousticly sound room.

When using the two mics are you suggesting use two mics on one track, eg: a stero setup, or are you suggesting using one mic per track and recording both mics onto two seperate tracks and playing back as two seperate tracks.

As I understand it, it's the second option.

The book I'm reading is quite basic and it about things like mic positioning rather than recording techniques.

The information you've suggested though is very useful and most appriciated.

[ranas]

Well Matt we have the same problem of room acoustics, but it can be solved.
Yes is the second option, if necesary you can record three tracks, one per mic. This is very useful during mixing.
Sorry, but what kind of mics do you have?. Because you will need one condenser mic at least.

[Matt Darcy]

I've got an ok array of mic's.

Rhodes N1 is my main one
Sure Beta 57's
Sure "drum set" mic setup (there must be at least one condenser in that).
and a few others......but I can't remember off the top of my head.

I'll have another little play with it, - see what I can come up with.

[albee1952]

Just another 2 cents from a guitar playing engineer. Lots of folks get what they want with a Shure SM-57. Personally, its my 4th or 5th choice after experimenting(but it may just be the tone I go for). If you have a "live" sound you dig, you need to find a way to get it to playback the right way. The big eye opener for me(after stupid amounts of time spent/wasted on a dozen methods with anywhere from 1 to 5 mics) came the first time I tried a Royer 121 ribbon. For me, that set the bar as I listened to the playback and felt like I was listening to the amp(for the first time EVER!). Since I can't really afford a $1200 mic, I have found some alternative choices that have worked well(and better for me than the old SM57 "standard"). My new fav is a Cascade ribbon model(DR-2) that sounds close to the Royer(but I have not had them side by side), next choice is a toss up between a Shure SM-7 and a Marshall/MXL 2001(yes, the original chinese cheapo Nuemann knock off) the darker quality of this mic makes it friendlier for guitar than the nicer(brighter) LDC mics that many of us own. What I am trying to say(I guess) in a round about way is; just because a 57 is the "standard" does not mean it is right for you(any more than an AKG 414 is right for every singer). Certainly remember that placement and room acoustics will be part of the total tone. You can minimize the room by using some kind of baffle to cut reflections off nearby walls. You might also experiment with placing the amp/cab on a tilt-back stand or maybe on one of those Auralex Gramma things. Or even experiment with where you place the amp in the room(near or away from a corner, or a wall especially if it is an open back speaker) come to think of it, with an open back cab, you might try adding a mic on the back and use a polarity reverse plugin on playback. Jimmy Page founds lots of great tones by moving front and rear mics around for tone control.

[Matt Darcy]

excellent feedback and information......very gratefully received.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by Matt Darcy

A while ago, I made a post about a microphone problem I was having, which was solved (thank you).

In the course of that discussion a few people mentioned about the sound of recorded guitars on albums using amazing amounts of compression to get the sound we are so used to hearing these days, now I am aware of this from my studio days, and to an extent have done this before, but normally as a "player" rather than a recorder.

What are peoples views on managing the guitar tone on recordings, I have the "live" tone just how I like it, but recording it sounds scrappy, I'd like to polish it a little more, what techniques do you use, what compression plugins, or do you focus on hardware solutions ? are there any rules eg: less drive, = more compression required, higher mid sounds = less need,

Just asking general advice and opinions on obtaining a tidy sound of that nice live tone.

pretty deep subject obviously, but in general, i will use a db or 2 of compression on a buss containing all the guitar tracks to gel them a bit, but in general electric guitars a compressed enough via tubes, then will get slammed even more during mixing.

i have the best luck with a mic where the cone and speaker meet. just the slightest movement here will make all the difference. using 1 mic will eliminate phase issues which can kill your guitar tone. plus when your not in an acoustically freindly room, your typically better off going for amp sound and not room sound. but mic placement i think is #1 on the engineering side for guitar tones.

i do like myself to use 2 mics. 57 and a royer 121. everything albee said is true plus more!!! could not track guitars w/o it! but even with the royer i like it on the cone. i only use room mics if the song or mix will need it. heavier music or dense music, a room mic just does not work real well imo.

if at all possible i prefer to double track most parts at least and run them hard left and right, solo's more center. blues, country or music where i would not double track guitars, i will take a bit more time making sure the tone is what i want.

i do keep gain to minimum, more gain, thinner the guitar sound (typically anyway).dont scoop out all your mids! i try to keep my low end at minimum as well. eats up tone and end up rolling it off in the mix anyway. actually in mixing rolling off a bit of the highs gives it a bit more beef and room for other things.

no stead fast rules except get that mic placement!!!