Snare drum recommendations needed!

[DrFord]

Layering sounds may be the digital way to do this, but before digital folks came up with some pretty creative ideas.

1 option will be to use a tone generator of white noise. Then apply a gate with a send to some good plate reverb. The key input of the gate will be your original snare drum. I do this same thing with kick drums and a fundamental frequency of the key center when doing hip hop sometimes to get more tonal sub sounds to make my kicks fit better in the key center.

Make sure you have a nice heavy and clippy gate opening so that you get a good pop, and then you will need to play with the closing of the gate to make it sound legitimate with your original snare.

This can really help a bottom snare mic in the mix as the rattle of the snare coils / springs sounds like white noise anyway.

If you are really good with Midi I believe you can also use key inputs to trigger sounds. So layering a snare will be much easier with this method. But you'll need a drum plug that will allow key input. I believe battery will let you, double check though.

Also you can try a heavy eq before heavy compression and layer that to try and fatten up your desired tone. Also parallel compression to make your snare sound more present and snappier - if you have a good compressor plug.

The re-micing of snares actually is really a good idea and can lead to some very cool tones. Best thing to do is to get maybe a 10" or 12" speaker out of your home theatre, and remove it from the chassis. Then you can really just lay in on your snare and solo the snare track.

Don't be afraid to experiment!!!

D

[sambeau]

Thanks DrFord! I tried the noise generator approach & got a very cool sound that really improved the whole song!

Thanks again.

[cfb25]

I work for a drummer who is generally considered one of the best in the world. And even though we record on a top of the line DW custom kit thats tuned to perfection... We still use soundreplacer... its the first thing we do once we get the drums in... We've done songs where we had 4+ snare sounds all mixed in on top of the original....
so.. do what you gotta do...

CB

[Naagzh]

A trick I like is to use pitch shift to de-tune the snare track by one octave or so. Then, gate, compress, and EQ so it sounds warm and beefy, and sneak it back in parallel with the original snare track. I've been told ACDC and lots of other rock bands used to do this with Eventides to get a fatter, deeper snare drum sound.

Also, to the OP, it sounds like you recorded a decent snare track, but that you haven't ever really LISTENED to one. There usually is NOT alot of "normal" snare drum sound from a mic that's only an inch or two off the head. There will, however, be lots of attack, and probably some boominess, too, due to proximity effect.

Only when your ears are a few feet away will a drum sound "normal". The same is true for mics. But capturing lots of attack is great for getting that snare to cut through distorted guitars.

[DrFord]

Originally Posted by cfb25

I work for a drummer who is generally considered one of the best in the world. And even though we record on a top of the line DW custom kit thats tuned to perfection... We still use soundreplacer...CB

I have actually found/heard more often than not that DW is not considered a Studio drum kit.

Now, don't get me wrong, because DW is one of the finest drum kits period, and IS considered the top of the pile for live applications. I am not surprised you use sound replacer. The playability for a DW set is above and beyond other kits, from mounting hardware to feel, but in my experience they deliver a more cardboard sound in the studio.

I am just posting this for sake of discussion, as recording drums is one of the most intricate and time consuming things for engineers. More often then not, the combination of mics, pres, gates, and compressors are not the best choice to get the best sound out of a drum set, regardless of the premier player.

Bottom line, drums are just plain old difficult. The most important thing you can do though is to put on some good headphones and listen as you place your mics.

D

[elicious]

I have actually found/heard more often than not that DW is not considered a Studio drum kit.

Now, don't get me wrong, because DW is one of the finest drum kits period, and IS considered the top of the pile for live applications. I am not surprised you use sound replacer. The playability for a DW set is above and beyond other kits, from mounting hardware to feel, but in my experience they deliver a more cardboard sound in the studio.

wow.
all of us have opinions and mine aren't any better than yours;
so i'll just state: dw's are absolutely considered studio drum kits, and if you've had bad experiences with them sounding cardboard, i'll betcha it had more to do with the heads and/or tuning.
to each his own,
e

[jssrecording]

Try replacing it with drumagog of maybe do the Ross Hogarth trick and copy the snare and pitch shift it. If all else fails rerecord the drums.

Jason at forthemix.com

[DrFord]

Elicious-
You are probably right, and as I am not a drummer I couldn't tell you about drum heads and proper tuning, but in my own experience I just haven't gotten great sounds from DW kits. I have have great snare sounds from DW, and a friend of mine has a custom 24" kick which coupled with a nice neumann fet and a Shure beta 52 sounded pretty slick.

D

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by DrFord

I have actually found/heard more often than not that DW is not considered a Studio drum kit.

Now, don't get me wrong, because DW is one of the finest drum kits period, and IS considered the top of the pile for live applications. I am not surprised you use sound replacer. The playability for a DW set is above and beyond other kits, from mounting hardware to feel, but in my experience they deliver a more cardboard sound in the studio.

I am just posting this for sake of discussion, as recording drums is one of the most intricate and time consuming things for engineers. More often then not, the combination of mics, pres, gates, and compressors are not the best choice to get the best sound out of a drum set, regardless of the premier player.

Bottom line, drums are just plain old difficult. The most important thing you can do though is to put on some good headphones and listen as you place your mics.

D

Depends on the style of music. I just tracked a hard rock/metal album a couple months ago using a new DW kit that was made from their new "x-shells". It sounded AMAZING. The mixing engineer even commented on how good the drums sounded dry.

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by jssrecording

Try replacing it with drumagog of maybe do the Ross Hogarth trick and copy the snare and pitch shift it. If all else fails rerecord the drums.

Jason at forthemix.com

Ross is great, don't get me wrong. But I don't think he "created" this technique. I believe the person most well-known for this technique is Mutt Lang. He's been doing it since the late 70's/Early 80's.