To HDX or not to HDX?

[ishur]

Originally Posted by its2loud

If you’re not using a ton of plugins, are you using external hardware inserts? If so, this will factor into your decision with regards to round trip latency for external gear.

Yes, the Aurora is basically dedicated to outboard inserts. With the HD2 system, it's never been an issue in terms of delay compensation.

[Darryl Ramm]

Then with lots of hardware inserts I'd be tempted to get a used HD Native Thunderbolt box (which will handle up to 64 DigiLink I/O) and a Mac Studio or Mac Mini (but well configured Mac Mini's get you into Studio pricing). Get a decent amount of memory in the Mac since you can't upgrade that (-- way more than you are used to -- like 32GB min, 64GB if you want to play with VIs etc.), and you can't upgrade the CPUs, SSDs in the Mini and Studio are upgradeable with third party NAND cards, but that's hobbies hacker territory now, lets see if major vendors get involved there. Just use all your current interface boxes. If HD Native works then great, if you really need DSP for some reason then you can spend the several $K more on a HDX card and Thunderbolt chassis and sell the Thunderbolt HD Native box for what you paid for it. There will be lots to learn just with a new Mac and recent Pro Tools to likely keep you busy for a while.

Personally I'd hold out if possible for the new M4 based Mac Studio and and hopefully by then as well Pro Tools and iLok will be officially blessed on the M4 Apple silicon Macs (there are some known issues there with some plugins and iLok and maybe a few other issues).

HD Native Thunderbolt (and any DigiLink system) requires a Pro Tools Ultimate license, which is going to cost you ~$1,500 with one year of updates and support, there is no discounted upgrades for such an old license you have. Beyond that it's ~$500/year for updates and support if you want them, or you can resume when/if you want to update. The Avid Complete Plugin Bundle (https://www.avid.com/plugins/avid-co...-plugin-bundle) plugins that come with Ultimate are a subscription that last only while you are paying the annual support/update fee (or you can pay $50/year for just that bundle subscription).

You'll likely need to repurchase or upgrade licenses for all third party plugins.

I hate to see folks lose a working system, there might be cases where you really want to bring up that old computer again, you might find that out only after using the new system, migrating sessions over etc. A used G5, or trying to repair the G5 you have, might get all that running again at low cost, so I'd be sure to hang on to everything in case that is needed.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by ishur

My number one priority is being able to keep using my D-Command and Xmon. It would be nice to be able to keep using my 192IO and my old Aurora, and maybe just add another Aurora for more IO for outboard (I don't care for the 192IO converters, and only use the digital IO on it). I don't know whether it's possible to accomplish this using HD Native as opposed to having HDX?

I'm really not worried about chewing up voices or processing power. I rarely have tracks exceeding 40, and don't use a ton of plugins.

I'm still rocking a D-Command along a Trinnov D-Mon instead of an Xmon. Still works great with the latest version of Pro Tools! They can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

HD Native basically gives you everything a HDX1 card gives you, minus the DSP for processing. I was using it with Lynx Aurora 16s up until 12 months ago or so. HD Native cards and boxes were discontinued a few years ago with support ending in 2027. It is probably worth asking M-series Apple users how they are fairing with it all. The HDX card on the other hand is still being sold and supported.

[ishur]

Originally Posted by LDS

I'm still rocking a D-Command along a Trinnov D-Mon instead of an Xmon. Still works great with the latest version of Pro Tools! They can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

HD Native basically gives you everything a HDX1 card gives you, minus the DSP for processing. I was using it with Lynx Aurora 16s up until 12 months ago or so. HD Native cards and boxes were discontinued a few years ago with support ending in 2027. It is probably worth asking M-series Apple users how they are fairing with it all. The HDX card on the other hand is still being sold and supported.

Yes, I'm leery of (1) buying used gear and (2) buying something that will only be supported for a couple more years. I know the D-Command is long since out of support, but I feel the same way about mine as you do about yours.

I'm not saying I'm completely oblivious to cost issues, but I am in a position where I don't need to settle for a less than optimal solution simply to save some money.

Keeping the D-Command is the biggest cost saving measure by far, plus I don't know that I would even like the screen-centric nature of the S4. One of the best things about the D-Command IMO is the lack of more screens...

[LDS]

Originally Posted by ishur

Yes, I'm leery of (1) buying used gear and (2) buying something that will only be supported for a couple more years. I know the D-Command is long since out of support, but I feel the same way about mine as you do about yours.

I'm not saying I'm completely oblivious to cost issues, but I am in a position where I don't need to settle for a less than optimal solution simply to save some money.

Keeping the D-Command is the biggest cost saving measure by far, plus I don't know that I would even like the screen-centric nature of the S4. One of the best things about the D-Command IMO is the lack of more screens...

Realistically, it's all swings and roundabouts. You've missed the entire Intel rendition of Apple history with your old setup! At some point (probably not too far into the future), Apple is going to kill Rosetta support too. That will be the end of the D-Command in future versions of Pro Tools on new Mac computers.

While I love my D-Command, I probably LOVE the S4 even more. And the S6 for that matter. I find them faster to work on. I can't remotely justify the cost, and don't like the smaller S-Stuff...

A HD Native interface is only $400-$500 used. Pair it with your Auroras and 192s and D-Commands. Make music. Be happy. HDX is just as old HD Native... and could also be EOL'ed any day too! It's not likely... but you know... nobody can really predict the future.

[Philthy]

Originally Posted by Farhoof

1) This is not a cheap upgrade. The Mac ($2.5K), the HDX card ($2.5K used), the chassis ($800), plus whatever peripherals you'll need for a system update. Although I personally think this is the best option moving to HDX. But a used working pcix G5 is practically free.

So I just moved from HD to HDX
The HDX card, I paid $1500 (reverb.com)

The chassis (sonnet egfx breakaway box) I paid $350 (ebay.com)

Mac M4 mini Pro: $1400

So my numbers were quite low compared to yours, perhaps because I was willing to take a month or two to bargain hunt, and I'm OK with going used (been buying used computer gear for years without trouble). But the new peripherals did add up quite a bit: Thunderbolt 5 expansion hub, nvme drives and cases, and various adapters added another $1k or so to the overall price.

One nice thing is I added 16 ins to my system for like $150... it's insane how cheap and useful used 192's are now. I love it! It was the continued support of the 192 that sold me on going HDX instead of carbon.

I had been planning to go Carbon until I actually looked at the numbers, and I feel relieved that I didn't, because the upgrade path to add channels over in hybrid land is crazy expensive. Also the added latency on VI's in Carbon was worrisome to me.

This week I plan to stress test the new system... but so far everything has worked great. System feels like a beast. Even if HDX gets EOL'd tomorrow, I expect to run this system for a decade.

[ishur]

Thought I would update everyone. I decided to stick with what I know, so I did get an HDX card, a Mac Studio and a Lynx Aurora(n) with 32 I/O. Installed Rosetta and no issues getting the old 192 and the D-Command going. After the expected minor glitches to get everything else up and running, and several days relocating and rewiring my patchbays (definitely worth it), all is well. The only thing I'm missing is a way to remote control the transport--apparently you can't run Eucon and my legacy D-Command at the same time, so using Avid Control on an iPad won't fly. I'm going to post the question in the D-Command forum and see if there's a solution.

Anyway, thanks to all who chimed in, I appreciate all your thoughts. Now to enjoy 50x the power of my previous system...