New Mac - M1 vs Mac Pro 2019

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

And the only advice I was given was, return the laptop BTW. Hardly advice.

That is NOT what I said.

What I did say was ‘If you need Big Sur, best return that laptop. You’ll only be able to run Monterey on the 2021 MBP.’

That was in response to you stating that you had bought a 10 core MBP and knew you had to downgrade it to Big Sur.

How is my suggestion to return it if Big Sur was a requirement not advice? In fact, it seems to be extremely good advice given you were under the misunderstanding that you would be able to downgrade the Mac OS which, as I and others have pointed out, you can’t.

I’ve offered advice and tried to explain how it works. I’ll bow out now as you seem to be ignoring what I’m saying. I’ll let you deal with Darryl’s wrath instead.

Best of luck to you and your new machine. :)


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[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Sardi

I’ll let you deal with Darryl’s wrath instead.

Yeah, nah my wrath’s all tuckered out…

[spinsong]

Instead of incurring someone’s “wrath” or backtracking to something that’s eventually going to be outdated. Why don’t you give yourself a pat on the back, and realize you’re ahead of the times instead of trying to work with something archaic. The new MacBook Pro is ahead of the pack in a league of it’s own. Eventually, when these so called commentators catch up they’ll join the rest of the pack to bask in it’s glory.


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[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by spinsong

Instead of incurring someone’s “wrath” or backtracking to something that’s eventually going to be outdated. Why don’t you give yourself a pat on the back, and realize you’re ahead of the times instead of trying to work with something archaic. The new MacBook Pro is ahead of the pack in a league of it’s own. Eventually, when these so called commentators catch up they’ll join the rest of the pack to bask in it’s glory.

Uh personally I was running Pro Tools on a first gen M1 MBP on Big Sur for quite a while, recently gave the machine back to a client, will sure be buying another Apple silicon MBP but will wait it out for a while longer for things to shake out a little more (and I'm not hurting in any way with my current Intel MBP). I think Apple silicon is totally the future and can't wait for the native transition. That's not the argument here, the discussion is being careful to be aware of what the current situation is/any limitations now.

[spinsong]

I was also going to mention that some people miss the whole point. Big Sur is Rosetta. Apple is going through a transition. Whereas they will drop intel support altogether somewhere in the future. Why backtrack to Big Sur. When you can have a more powerful computer running the next operating silicon only system.


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[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by spinsong

I was also going to mention that some people miss the whole point. Big Sur is Rosetta. Apple is going through a transition. Whereas they will drop intel support altogether somewhere in the future. Why backtrack to Big Sur. When you can have a more powerful computer running the next operating silicon only system.

Uh? Because not everything works today on Monterey. If you need stuff to actually work to get things done that's an issue. Folks have to back track to Big Sur today (if they can) for software compatibility reasons and/or bugs in Monterey. All of which will of course go away in time.

"Big Sur is Rosetta"--I don't know what you mean by that. Rosetta 2 technology is built into all macOS releases on Apple silicon based macs. If there is an OS level bug or incompatibility like app software being incompatible with Monterey on Intel then Rosetta 2 will work it's magic and the same problems will exist on Apple silicon. Apple silicon systems have additional issues with device drivers and similar (which Rosetta 2 cannot binary translate). And eventually Apple will remove Rosetta 2 from macOS like it has done previously.

Yes Apple will eventually drop Intel support, and Avid will drop support for Intel Macs as well, a point made in this thread multiple times.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by spinsong

I was also going to mention that some people miss the whole point. Big Sur is Rosetta. Apple is going through a transition. Whereas they will drop intel support altogether somewhere in the future. Why backtrack to Big Sur. When you can have a more powerful computer running the next operating silicon only system.


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As Darryl has pointed out, Rosetta is not Big Sur. It’s a translation later. It is also a part of Monterey and more than likely will be in the next Mac OS as well.

Also, if you don’t need X86 compatibility, you don’t even need to install/run Rosetta.

TBH, if you really want to dabble with an M1 machine and need Big Sur compatibility, grab any of the 2020 M1 machines (MBA, MBP, Mini) and use those. They’re also cheaper but still VERY powerful.


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[spinsong]

Obviously Rosetta is not Big Sur. That’s just cutting to the chase. According to the Apple presentation. As It was stated by the big honcho, the transition would take two years, just like the first one way back when. So people wanting to use the old intel code would be stuck on Big Sur: The first iteration of Rosetta 2, if you want to be more exact. There’s a big likelihood the third operating system will be Apple silicon only, since it was stated the “transition” would take two years. Why are you pushing people towards the old intel code offhandedly, when they should be going towards Apple silicon. Two steps back, one step forward. Watch out for the wrath.


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[Sardi]

Originally Posted by spinsong

Why are you pushing people towards the old intel code offhandedly, when they should be going towards Apple silicon.

Who’s pushing anyone to ‘Intel code’?

This thread makes my head hurt.


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[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by spinsong

Obviously Rosetta is not Big Sur. That’s just cutting to the chase. According to the Apple presentation. As It was stated by the big honcho, the transition would take two years, just like the first one way back when.

So people wanting to use the old intel code would be stuck on Big Sur: The first iteration of Rosetta 2, if you want to be more exact.

Two people just explained to your Big Sur is not Rosetta 2. But here you go equating the two again. And Rosetta 2 is included in Monterey also as explained. And now you make the completely wrong claim that Intel code will be stuck on Big Sur. Lots of Intel apps runs fine on Monterey under Rosetta 2. If they did not the world would be screaming about problems. Again as explained before Pro Tools stuff has problems on Big Sur and I hope that will get fixed soon, and when Apple does that on Monterey on Intel it should also run fine under Monterey on Apple silicon (without native code support, but hopefully we get that as well soon).

I get that this stuff is technical and complex. But others here have a lot better understanding of all this than you seem to, at some point you need to just stop and listen.

I've been working with binary translators since the early days of VMware (with a x86 to x86 binary translator providing much of magic that made possible what we did) and have a pretty deep understanding of this stuff. I lead product management for the early VMware products. I know some of the folks who were at Transitive (spin out from Manchester University) who licensed their technology to Apple which became Rosetta, etc. and I've worked with Java virtual machine engineering teams, there is a lot of technology/idea sharing between the hardware focused binary translators and the JVM world--parts of Rosetta 2 being a great example of that. And I know some of the folks likely doing the Rosetta 2 work at Apple--now, but being Apple I don't ask and they sure don't talk. But please, keep on explaining Rosetta stuff to me.

Why are you pushing people towards the old intel code offhandedly, when they should be going towards Apple silicon. Two steps back, one step forward. Watch out for the wrath.

You seem to not be reading what people are writing. Neither of us going backwards and forwards with you here are pushing people away from Apple Silicon. All we are doing is pointing out what will work if folks actually need stuff to work now. And correcting misunderstandings so people can make informed decisions. I do not know why this is so hard to follow.